Hello all:

Such an interesting conversation---have been off for a few days, but
reading with interest.

 

To respond to some follow up questions, yes, our grandparents came here
legally....but as stated before, it was a lot easier to be here
"legally" back then.  However, one of our grandparents was smuggled out
of her native country as a young child to avoid religious persecution at
a time when staying would have meant certain death.  Given our
profession, I am sure I don't have to remind folks that genocide
certainly didn't begin or end with the Holocaust.

 

Of course we are a nation of laws.  Thank God that we are also a nation
of people who understand that we have both the power and the
responsibility to change them.  While it may be up to congress to pass
laws, it's up to us to elect congress.  While we don't elect the Supreme
Court, we DO elect (almost all of the time) the President.  And as far
as people who have no right to vote, let's also remember how little time
has passed since the civil rights and suffrage movements.  It always
takes my breath away when one of my new citizen students celebrates with
great joy the occasion of his/her first opportunity to vote. 

 

Finally, I have many, many students who are here legally, and have been
waiting for years and years for their green cards which they applied for
legally, having met all of the requirements.  Still they wait, year
after year, in limbo.  Perhaps immigration reform will help these people
too.

 

Ever the optimist, Luanne

 

 

 

 

________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:44 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1449] Re: [English Language 1441] Re:
ImmigrationBill - Correction

 

Well, actually......remember "unalienable rights?" Also, an "alienist,"
another name for those therapists who treat withdrawqn, depressed,
"absent" people. 

 

Andrea 

 

Andrea 

On May 30, 2007, at 7:10 PM, Sally Bishop wrote: 

	 

	I know enough about the American lawmakers to know that "when"
and "if" they ever pass a new immigration law... it won't be better and
it won't be fair.  We are  a nation of laws, but we are also a nation
that does not have to accept bad laws.  Hence the Supreme   Court.  No
we will never come to consensus on this issue no matter the level of our
education or our understanding.  However, I would like to see all of us
reexamine the language we use when talking about immigration.  For
example, as far as I know I have never met anyone from another planet,
and I believe that calling people "aliens" is pejorative.  (I haven't
noted this used here.) 

	 

	 (After 6 months on this list, I just wrote my first complete
sentence.  Maybe it is because today I  travelled 4 hours to see two of
my 50 year old students attend the Naturalization Oath Ceremony.)   

	
	
	

	On May 30, 2007, at 7:39 AM, carolkubota at comcast.net wrote: 

		 

		"Field Hands" are the people who work in agriculture, in
the fields. I live in Michigan and the farmers here are not able to
harvest their vegetable crops and will not be able to harvest the fruit
crops this summer because the "migrants" are not coming to Michigan out
of fear of being caught if they are illegal. The farmers are complaining
because no one else wants to do this backbreaking work and the fruits
and vegetables will go to waste. 

		  

			-------------- Original message -------------- 

			From: "shirley burns" <threedog at cyberport.net> 

			 

			I know we will never come to a consensus on this
issue. I can't be persuaded that it is okay to disregard laws. We are a
nation of laws and just because a law didn't exist thirty years in its
current form doesn't mean to ignore the law. I teach ESL and have many
hard working students who are legal and I admire them tremendously. They
are working within the law and making good progress in their new
country. I'm not sure what the "field hands" mean. I would think the law
should rather they are a doctor or a field hand.

			 

			From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
carolkubota at comcast.net 

			Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:25 PM 

			To: The Adult English Language Learners
Discussion List 

			Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1441] Re: Immigration
Bill - Correction 

			 

			  

			 

			That is the exact same thing that many of the
migrants are doing. They come here and work hard, learn English and save
as much as they can. I know many families who came here illegally and
have been able to send their children to college and their children are
now in the professioanl field. 

			 

			  

			 

			They are not all "field hands" forever. 

			 

			  

			 

			Everyone deserves a chance. 

			 

			  

			 

			  

			 

			-------------- Original message -------------- 

			From: "Freeman, Leigh" <lfreeman at njn.org> 

				My grandparents came from Poland...my
maternal grandfather learned enough English to survive and got a job in
the coal mines in PA and he worked hard. He had two houses, one to rent
out and his family always had food, shelter and medical care (that he
paid for). My paternal grandfather built a bakery in North Trenton NJ
and survived very well. The key issues with me are to learn the
language, get a job and to pay their way (medical, taxes, whatever).
They can't do that if we keep this illegal thing going. 

				 

				Peace, 

				 

				Leigh Freeman 

				 

				  

				 

				From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley burns 

				Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:39 AM 

				To: 'The Adult English Language Learners
Discussion List' 

				Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1436] Re:
Immigration Bill 

				 

				  

				 

				Not quite. Ellis island served as a
immigration format. My grandfather came from Sweden. He took ESL classes
at night and worked during the day. He gave learning English a high
priority because he wanted to get a job! He didn't receive any social
benefits. He is the first to say that learning the language and earning
your way is your responsibility. I think we need to see the middle
ground. Let's face it we are a much bigger country than in 1921.

				 

				 

				 

				From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Senger 

				Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:12 AM 

				To: The Adult English Language Learners
Discussion List 

				Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1432] Re:
Immigration Bill 

				 

				  

				 

				Pax all! 

				 

				  

				 

				Keep in mind that there were NO
comprehensive immigration laws until 1921, unless you count having a
cough (in which case you were quarantined until you got better or were
sent back). So most immigrants had no laws to break by getting on a ship
and coming here. No language requirement, no money. Just huddled masses
yearning to breathe free. How times have changed! 

				 

				  

				 

				Ciao! 

				 

				Martin E. Senger 

				 

				  

				 

				-----Original Message----- 

				From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
carolkubota at comcast.net 

				Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 7:10 PM 

				To: The Adult English Language Learners
Discussion List 

				Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1389] Re:
Immigration Bill 

				 

				  

				 

				Luanne, 

				 

				  

				 

				Did your grandparents immigrate into
this country illegally? My great grandparents didn't. 

				 

				  

				 

				Carol 

				-------------- Original message
-------------- 

				From: "Luanne Teller"
<lteller at massasoit.mass.edu> 

				 

				> I read with interest all that is being
said about immigrants, amnesty, 

				> and of course, the level of hostility
that somehow has become part of 

				> our national dialog. 

				> 

				> I can't help but be thankful that this
same atmosphere was not in place 

				> when my grandparents immigrated to
this country. All four of my and my 

				> husband's parents are first generation
Americans. 

				> 

				> My father often told the story of how
he began kindergarten without 

				> knowing one word of English. Just a
short decade later, he was on a 

				> Navy ship defending his country in
WWII. What a difference 10 years can 

				> make... 

				> 

				> Our parents never considered
themselves anything but Americans...why is 

				> it that now seems like a luxury so
many are no longer afford ed? 

				> 

				> My father often mused that perhaps
people would be less hostile towards 

				> immigrant populations if they realized
that they would be paying $10 for 

				> a gallon of orange juice if it weren't
for the migrant workers. He also 

				> thought it was criminal that ANY child
living in America would be 

				> hungry, or have limited access to
health care or housing. 

				> 

				> So who do we count? And who do we care
about? And who gets to decide? 

				> Luanne 

				> 

				> -----Original Message----- 

				> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov


				>
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sally Bishop 

				> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:13 AM


				> To: The Adult English Language
Learners Discussion List 

				> Su bject: [EnglishLanguage 1367] Re:
Immigration Bill 

				> 

				> A very good question. If only I could
ask my German grandparents who 

				> arri ved in the 1880's or my husband's
ancest ors wh o arrived in 1626.... 

				> or my students who are attending the
Naturalization Oath Ceremony 

				> next week. 

				> 

				> 

				> On May 22, 2007, at 1:28 PM, Ujwala
Samant wrote: 

				> 

				> > Kearney, 

				> > 

				> > Now how far do we go back when we
talk about uninvited 

				> > guests? 

				> > 

				> > Warm regards, 

				> > Ujwala Samant 

				> > 

				> > --- Kearney Lykins wrote: 

				> > 

				> >> Nancy, 

				> >> 

				> >> Certainly the "needs of the people"
are the very 

				> >> reason for government in the first
place. The 

				> >> immigrati on deb ate however is
about who gets to be 

				> >> "the people." Societies that don't
control their 

				> >> borders, and hence their language
and culture and 

				> >> shared values ceases being a
society at all. There 

				> >& gt; are no examples of successful
societies that have 

				& gt; >> permitted themselves to be
overrun with uninvited 

				> >> guests. 

				> >> 

				> >> Kearney Lykins 

				> >> ESOL Teacher 

				> >> Virginia Beach, VA 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> ----- Original Message ---- 

				> >> From: Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU 

				> >> To: The Adult English Language
Learners Discussion 

				> >> List 

				> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007
10:14:13 AM 

				> >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1331] Re:
Immigration Bill 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> Gloria, thank you so much f or sha
ring 

				> >> this. I was not aware in such
detail of this 

				> >> portion of the proposed 

				> >> bill. 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> On thi s past Sunday, I listened on
our 

				> >> local NPR station to 

				> >> a talk given by Jared Diamond,
author of Collapse: 

				> >> How Societies 

				> >> Choose to Fail or Succeed. One of
his main tenets 

				> >> was that societies 

				> >> in which the ruling class fails to
understand the 

				> >> needs of the rest of 

				> >> the people (i.e.loses touch with
reality) ultimately 

				> >> fails. 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> Nancy 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >
********************************************************* 

				> >> 

				> >> Nancy R. Faux 

				> >> 

				&g t; > ;> ESOL Specialist 

				> >> 

				> >> Virginia Adult Learning Resource
Center 

				> >> 

				> >> Virginia Commonwealth University 

				> >> 

				> >> Richmond, VA 

				> >> 

				> >> nfaux at vcu.edu 

				> >> 

				> >> h ttp:// www.valrc.org 

				> >> 

				> >> 1-800-237-0178 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> "Gloria Gillette" 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> Sent by:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov 

				> >> 05/21/2007 04:34 PM 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> Please respond to 

				> >> 

				> >> The Adult English Language Learners
Discussion List 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >&g t; 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> To 

				> >> 

				> >> "'The Adult English Language
Learners 

				> >> Discu ssion List'" 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> cc 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				& gt; &g t;> 

				> >> 

				> >> Subject 

				> >> 

				> >> [EnglishLanguage 1321] Immigration 

				> >> Bill 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> Has anyone read the Immigration 

				> >> bill being debated in the Senate? 

				> >> 

				> >> For all the talk f rom th e
politicians 

				> >> about immigrants learning English,
this is what is 

				> >> included in the 324 

				> >> page bill (available on CSPAN): 

				> >&g t; 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> (Sec 709): 29 SEC. 709. English
Learning 

				> >> Program. 

				> >> 

				& gt; &g t;> 30 (a) The Secretary of
Education shall 

				> >> develop an open source electronic 

				> >> 

				> >> 31 program, useable on personal
computers 

				> >> and through the Internet, 

				> >> 

				> >> 32 that teaches the English
language 

				> >> at various levels of proficiency,
up 

				> >> 

				> >> 33 to and including the ability to 

				> >> pass the Test of English as a
Foreign 

				> >> 

				> >> 34 Language, to individuals inside 

				> >> the United States whose primary 

				> >> 

				> >> 35 language is a l anguage other
than 

				> >> English. The Secretary shall make 

				> >> 

				> >> 36 the program available to the
public 

				> >> for free, including by plac ing it
on 

				> >> 

				> >> 37 the Department of Education
website, 

				> >> and shall ensure that it is readily


				&g t; > ;> 

				> >> 38 accessible to public libraries
throughout 

				> >> the United States. The 

				> >> 

				> >> 39 program shall be fully
accessible, 

				> >> at a minimum, to speakers of the
top 

				> >> 

				> >> 40 five foreign languages spoken
inside 

				> >> the United States. 

				> >> 

				> >> 41 (b) Authorization of
Appropriations- 

				> >> There is authorized to be 

				&g t; > ;> 

				> >> DRAFT - FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES
ONLY 

				> >> 

				> >> May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m. 

				> >> 

				> >> 5/18/2007 325 

				> >> 

				> >> appropriated to the Secretary of
Education 

				> >> 1 such sums as are necessary 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >&g t; Section 704 discusses
Citizenship 

				> >> and Integration Councils- also
worth reading. (Is 

				> >> this EL/Civ ics?). 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> 

				> >> Gloria Gillette 

				> >> 

				> >> Northeast ABLE Resource 

				> >> 

				> >
Center---------------------------------------------------- 

				> >> 

				> > === message truncated ===> 

				> >
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				> > 

				> > 

				> > 

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_________________________________________ 

				> 

				> > ______________Get the free Yahoo!
toolbar and rest assured w ith th e 

				> > added security of spyware
protection. 

				> >
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				> >
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		From: shirley burns <threedog at cyberport.net> 

		Date: May 30, 2007 6:46:17 AM MDT 

		To: 'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion
List' <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> 

		Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1443] Re: [English Language
1441] Re: Immigration Bill - Correction 

		 

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