Semantics.
On May 31, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:


> Sally,

>

> I concur that reaching agreement on the immigration issue is  

> unlikely. Our disagreements are exacerbated though when people  

> cannot even accept the given legal terms, which, if taken in  

> context are not pejorative whatsoever. As I have pointed out  

> before, in immigration terms "alien" is not pejorative; it is a  

> legal status with plain meaning. Objecting to the term because it  

> can be associated with other meanings (e.g., a being from another  

> planet...) is like objecting to the term plaintiff because it might  

> connote somebody who sits around complaining all day, or that a  

> defendant acts defensively.

>

> If you were offering immigration advice to somebody wouldn't it be  

> responsible to educate him/her on the pertinent legal terms and  

> their true meanings?

>

>

> Kearney Lykins

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: Sally Bishop <bishopsl at cc.usu.edu>

> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List  

> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:10:52 PM

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1448] Re: [English Language 1441] Re:  

> Immigration Bill - Correction

>

> I know enough about the American lawmakers to know that "when" and  

> "if" they ever pass a new immigration law... it won't be better and  

> it won't be fair.  We are  a nation of laws, but we are also a  

> nation that does not have to accept bad laws.  Hence the Supreme    

> Court.  No we will never come to consensus on this issue no matter  

> the level of our education or our understanding.  However, I would  

> like to see all of us reexamine the language we use when talking  

> about immigration.  For example, as far as I know I have never met  

> anyone from another planet, and I believe that calling people  

> "aliens" is pejorative.  (I haven't noted this used here.)

>

>  (After 6 months on this list, I just wrote my first complete  

> sentence.  Maybe it is because today I  travelled 4 hours to see  

> two of my 50 year old students attend the Naturalization Oath  

> Ceremony.)

>

>

>

> On May 30, 2007, at 7:39 AM, carolkubota at comcast.net wrote:

>

>> "Field Hands" are the people who work in agriculture, in the  

>> fields.  I live in Michigan and the farmers here are not able to  

>> harvest their vegetable crops and will not be able to harvest the  

>> fruit crops this summer because the "migrants" are not coming to  

>> Michigan out of fear of being caught if they are illegal.  The  

>> farmers are complaining because no one else wants to do this  

>> backbreaking work and the fruits and vegetables will go to waste.

>>

>> -------------- Original message --------------

>> From: "shirley burns" <threedog at cyberport.net>

>> I know we will never come to a consensus on this issue.  I can’t  

>> be persuaded that it is okay to disregard laws.  We are a nation  

>> of laws and just because a law didn’t exist thirty years in its  

>> current form doesn’t mean to ignore the law.  I teach ESL and have  

>> many hard working students who are legal and I admire them  

>> tremendously. They are working within the law and making good  

>> progress in their new country.  I’m not sure what the “field  

>> hands” mean.  I would think the law should rather they are a  

>> doctor or a field hand.

>>

>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage- 

>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of carolkubota at comcast.net

>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:25 PM

>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1441] Re: Immigration Bill - Correction

>>

>>

>> That is the exact same thing that many of the migrants are doing.   

>> They come here and work hard, learn English and save as much as  

>> they can.  I know many families who came here illegally and have  

>> been able to send their children to college and their children are  

>> now in the professioanl field.

>>

>>

>> They are not all "field hands" forever.

>>

>>

>> Everyone deserves a chance.

>>

>>

>>

>> -------------- Original message --------------

>> From: "Freeman, Leigh" <lfreeman at njn.org>

>>

>> My grandparents came from Poland…my maternal grandfather learned  

>> enough English to survive and got a job in the coal mines in PA  

>> and he worked hard. He had two houses, one to rent out and his  

>> family always had food, shelter and medical care (that he paid  

>> for). My paternal grandfather built a bakery in North Trenton NJ  

>> and survived very well. The key issues with me are to learn the  

>> language, get a job and to pay their way (medical, taxes,  

>> whatever). They can’t do that if we keep this illegal thing going.

>>

>> Peace,

>>

>> Leigh Freeman

>>

>>

>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage- 

>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley burns

>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:39 AM

>> To: 'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'

>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1436] Re: Immigration Bill

>>

>>

>> Not quite.  Ellis island served as a immigration format.  My  

>> grandfather came from Sweden.  He took ESL classes at night and  

>> worked during the day.  He gave learning English a high priority  

>> because he wanted to get a job!  He didn’t receive any social  

>> benefits.  He is the first to say that learning the language and  

>> earning your way is your responsibility.  I think we need to see  

>> the middle ground.  Let’s face it we are a much bigger country  

>> than in 1921.

>>

>>

>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage- 

>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Senger

>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:12 AM

>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1432] Re: Immigration Bill

>>

>>

>> Pax all!

>>

>>

>> Keep in mind that there were NO comprehensive immigration laws  

>> until 1921, unless you count having a cough (in which case you  

>> were quarantined until you got better or were sent back).  So most  

>> immigrants had no laws to break by getting on a ship and coming  

>> here. No language requirement, no money. Just huddled masses  

>> yearning to breathe free. How times have changed!

>>

>>

>> Ciao!

>>

>> Martin E. Senger

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage- 

>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of carolkubota at comcast.net

>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 7:10 PM

>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1389] Re: Immigration Bill

>>

>>

>> Luanne,

>>

>>

>> Did your grandparents immigrate into this country illegally? My  

>> great grandparents didn't.

>>

>>

>> Carol

>>

>> -------------- Original message --------------

>> From: "Luanne Teller" <lteller at massasoit.mass.edu>

>>

>> > I read with interest all that is being said about immigrants,  

>> amnesty,

>> > and of course, the level of hostility that somehow has become  

>> part of

>> > our national dialog.

>> >

>> > I can't help but be thankful that this same atmosphere was not  

>> in place

>> > when my grandparents immigrated to this country. All four of my  

>> and my

>> > husband's parents are first generation Americans.

>> >

>> > My father often told the story of how he began kindergarten without

>> > knowing one word of English. Just a short decade later, he was on a

>> > Navy ship defending his country in WWII. What a difference 10  

>> years can

>> > make...

>> >

>> > Our parents never considered themselves anything but  

>> Americans...why is

>> > it that now seems like a luxury so many are no longer afford ed?

>> >

>> > My father often mused that perhaps people would be less hostile  

>> towards

>> > immigrant populations if they realized that they would be paying  

>> $10 for

>> > a gallon of orange juice if it weren't for the migrant workers.  

>> He also

>> > thought it was criminal that ANY child living in America would be

>> > hungry, or have limited access to health care or housing.

>> >

>> > So who do we count? And who do we care about? And who gets to  

>> decide?

>> > Luanne

>> >

>> > -----Original Message-----

>> > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

>> > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sally Bishop

>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:13 AM

>> > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

>> > Su bject: [EnglishLanguage 1367] Re: Immigration Bill

>> >

>> > A very good question. If only I could ask my German grandparents  

>> who

>> > arri ved in the 1880's or my husband's ancest ors wh o arrived  

>> in 1626....

>> > or my students who are attending the Naturalization Oath Ceremony

>> > next week.

>> >

>> >

>> > On May 22, 2007, at 1:28 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>> >

>> > > Kearney,

>> > >

>> > > Now how far do we go back when we talk about uninvited

>> > > guests?

>> > >

>> > > Warm regards,

>> > > Ujwala Samant

>> > >

>> > > --- Kearney Lykins wrote:

>> > >

>> > >> Nancy,

>> > >>

>> > >> Certainly the "needs of the people" are the very

>> > >> reason for government in the first place. The

>> > >> immigrati on deb ate however is about who gets to be

>> > >> "the people." Societies that don't control their

>> > >> borders, and hence their language and culture and

>> > >> shared values ceases being a society at all. There

>> > >& gt; are no examples of successful societies that have

>> & gt; >> permitted themselves to be overrun with uninvited

>> > >> guests.

>> > >>

>> > >> Kearney Lykins

>> > >> ESOL Teacher

>> > >> Virginia Beach, VA

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> ----- Original Message ----

>> > >> From: Nancy R Faux/AC/VCU

>> > >> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

>> > >> List

>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:14:13 AM

>> > >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1331] Re: Immigration Bill

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> Gloria, thank you so much f or sha ring

>> > >> this. I was not aware in such detail of this

>> > >> portion of the proposed

>> > >> bill.

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> On thi s past Sunday, I listened on our

>> > >> local NPR station to

>> > >> a talk given by Jared Diamond, author of Collapse:

>> > >> How Societies

>> > >> Choose to Fail or Succeed. One of his main tenets

>> > >> was that societies

>> > >> in which the ruling class fails to understand the

>> > >> needs of the rest of

>> > >> the people (i.e.loses touch with reality) ultimately

>> > >> fails.

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> Nancy

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > > *********************************************************

>> > >>

>> > >> Nancy R. Faux

>> > >>

>> &g t; > ;> ESOL Specialist

>> > >>

>> > >> Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center

>> > >>

>> > >> Virginia Commonwealth University

>> > >>

>> > >> Richmond, VA

>> > >>

>> > >> nfaux at vcu.edu

>> > >>

>> > >> h ttp:// www.valrc.org

>> > >>

>> > >> 1-800-237-0178

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> "Gloria Gillette"

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> Sent by: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

>> > >> 05/21/2007 04:34 PM

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> Please respond to

>> > >>

>> > >> The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >&g t;

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> To

>> > >>

>> > >> "'The Adult English Language Learners

>> > >> Discu ssion List'"

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> cc

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> & gt; &g t;>

>> > >>

>> > >> Subject

>> > >>

>> > >> [EnglishLanguage 1321] Immigration

>> > >> Bill

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> Has anyone read the Immigration

>> > >> bill being debated in the Senate?

>> > >>

>> > >> For all the talk f rom th e politicians

>> > >> about immigrants learning English, this is what is

>> > >> included in the 324

>> > >> page bill (available on CSPAN):

>> > >&g t;

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> (Sec 709): 29 SEC. 709. English Learning

>> > >> Program.

>> > >>

>> & gt; &g t;> 30 (a) The Secretary of Education shall

>> > >> develop an open source electronic

>> > >>

>> > >> 31 program, useable on personal computers

>> > >> and through the Internet,

>> > >>

>> > >> 32 that teaches the English language

>> > >> at various levels of proficiency, up

>> > >>

>> > >> 33 to and including the ability to

>> > >> pass the Test of English as a Foreign

>> > >>

>> > >> 34 Language, to individuals inside

>> > >> the United States whose primary

>> > >>

>> > >> 35 language is a l anguage other than

>> > >> English. The Secretary shall make

>> > >>

>> > >> 36 the program available to the public

>> > >> for free, including by plac ing it on

>> > >>

>> > >> 37 the Department of Education website,

>> > >> and shall ensure that it is readily

>> &g t; > ;>

>> > >> 38 accessible to public libraries throughout

>> > >> the United States. The

>> > >>

>> > >> 39 program shall be fully accessible,

>> > >> at a minimum, to speakers of the top

>> > >>

>> > >> 40 five foreign languages spoken inside

>> > >> the United States.

>> > >>

>> > >> 41 (b) Authorization of Appropriations-

>> > >> There is authorized to be

>> &g t; > ;>

>> > >> DRAFT - FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY

>> > >>

>> > >> May 18, 2007 11:58 p.m.

>> > >>

>> > >> 5/18/2007 325

>> > >>

>> > >> appropriated to the Secretary of Education

>> > >> 1 such sums as are necessary

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >&g t; Section 704 discusses Citizenship

>> > >> and Integration Councils- also worth reading. (Is

>> > >> this EL/Civ ics?).

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >> Gloria Gillette

>> > >>

>> > >> Northeast ABLE Resource

>> > >>

>> > > Center----------------------------------------------------

>> > >>

>> > > === message truncated ===>

>> > > ----------------------------------------------------

>> > >> National Institute for Literacy

>> > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing li st

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>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > _______________________ ______  

>> _________________________________________

>> >

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>> > Email delivered to carolkubota at comcast.net

>>

>>

>> From: shirley burns <threedog at cyberport.net>

>> Date: May 30, 2007 6:46:17 AM MDT

>> To: 'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'  

>> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1443] Re: [English Language 1441] Re:  

>> Immigration Bill - Correction

>>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

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>> Email delivered to carolkubota at comcast.net

>>

>>

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>

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