Kearney,

Just one thing: I am not qualified (legally) to give
immigration advice. I am not a lawyer, para legal, or
an officer of the court. Aside from saying "Go see a
lawyer", I simply would not give anyone my opinion or
my interpretation of an immigration law/act. As we've
seen in this discussion, there are as many
interpretations/opinions, as there are people. 

As an Immigrant Alien, I have always found the term
ridiculous and "alien". Semantic hair splitting or
not, it is a bit strange to be referred to as
"alien"... visions of green monsters come to mind.
Regards,
Ujwala



> On May 31, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

> 

> > Sally,

> >

> > I concur that reaching agreement on the

> immigration issue is  

> > unlikely. Our disagreements are exacerbated though

> when people  

> > cannot even accept the given legal terms, which,

> if taken in  

> > context are not pejorative whatsoever. As I have

> pointed out  

> > before, in immigration terms "alien" is not

> pejorative; it is a  

> > legal status with plain meaning. Objecting to the

> term because it  

> > can be associated with other meanings (e.g., a

> being from another  

> > planet...) is like objecting to the term plaintiff

> because it might  

> > connote somebody who sits around complaining all

> day, or that a  

> > defendant acts defensively.

> >

> > If you were offering immigration advice to

> somebody wouldn't it be  

> > responsible to educate him/her on the pertinent

> legal terms and  

> > their true meanings?

> >

> >

> > Kearney Lykins

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message ----

> > From: Sally Bishop <bishopsl at cc.usu.edu>

> > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List  

> > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:10:52 PM

> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1448] Re: [English

> Language 1441] Re:  

> > Immigration Bill - Correction

> >

> > I know enough about the American lawmakers to know

> that "when" and  

> > "if" they ever pass a new immigration law... it

> won't be better and  

> > it won't be fair.  We are  a nation of laws, but

> we are also a  

> > nation that does not have to accept bad laws. 

> Hence the Supreme    

> > Court.  No we will never come to consensus on this

> issue no matter  

> > the level of our education or our understanding. 

> However, I would  

> > like to see all of us reexamine the language we

> use when talking  

> > about immigration.  For example, as far as I know

> I have never met  

> > anyone from another planet, and I believe that

> calling people  

> > "aliens" is pejorative.  (I haven't noted this

> used here.)

> >

> >  (After 6 months on this list, I just wrote my

> first complete  

> > sentence.  Maybe it is because today I  travelled

> 4 hours to see  

> > two of my 50 year old students attend the

> Naturalization Oath  

> > Ceremony.)

> >

> >

> >

> > On May 30, 2007, at 7:39 AM,

> carolkubota at comcast.net wrote:

> >

> >> "Field Hands" are the people who work in

> agriculture, in the  

> >> fields.  I live in Michigan and the farmers here

> are not able to  

> >> harvest their vegetable crops and will not be

> able to harvest the  

> >> fruit crops this summer because the "migrants"

> are not coming to  

> >> Michigan out of fear of being caught if they are

> illegal.  The  

> >> farmers are complaining because no one else wants

> to do this  

> >> backbreaking work and the fruits and vegetables

> will go to waste.

> >>

> >> -------------- Original message --------------

> >> From: "shirley burns" <threedog at cyberport.net>

> >> I know we will never come to a consensus on this

> issue.  I can’t  

> >> be persuaded that it is okay to disregard laws. 

> We are a nation  

> >> of laws and just because a law didn’t exist

> thirty years in its  

> >> current form doesn’t mean to ignore the law.  I

> teach ESL and have  

> >> many hard working students who are legal and I

> admire them  

> >> tremendously. They are working within the law and

> making good  

> >> progress in their new country.  I’m not sure what

> the “field  

> >> hands” mean.  I would think the law should rather

> they are a  

> >> doctor or a field hand.

> >>

> >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage- 

> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of

> carolkubota at comcast.net

> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:25 PM

> >> To: The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List

> >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1441] Re: Immigration

> Bill - Correction

> >>

> >>

> >> That is the exact same thing that many of the

> migrants are doing.   

> >> They come here and work hard, learn English and

> save as much as  

> >> they can.  I know many families who came here

> illegally and have  

> >> been able to send their children to college and

> their children are  

> >> now in the professioanl field.

> >>

> >>

> >> They are not all "field hands" forever.

> >>

> >>

> >> Everyone deserves a chance.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -------------- Original message --------------

> >> From: "Freeman, Leigh" <lfreeman at njn.org>

> >>

> >> My grandparents came from Poland

my maternal

> grandfather learned  

> >> enough English to survive and got a job in the

> coal mines in PA  

> >> and he worked hard. He had two houses, one to

> rent out and his  

> >> family always had food, shelter and medical care

> (that he paid  

> >> for). My paternal grandfather built a bakery in

> North Trenton NJ  

> >> and survived very well. The key issues with me

> are to learn the  

> >> language, get a job and to pay their way

> (medical, taxes,  

> >> whatever). They can’t do that if we keep this

> illegal thing going.

> >>

> >> Peace,

> >>

> >> Leigh Freeman

> >>

> >>

> >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage- 

> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley burns

> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:39 AM

> >> To: 'The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List'

> >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1436] Re: Immigration

> Bill

> >>

> >>

> >> Not quite.  Ellis island served as a immigration

> format.  My  

> >> grandfather came from Sweden.  He took ESL

> classes at night and  

> >> worked during the day.  He gave learning English

> a high priority  

> >> because he wanted to get a job!  He didn’t

> receive any social  

> >> benefits.  He is the first to say that learning

> the language and  

> >> earning your way is your responsibility.  I think

> we need to see  

> >> the middle ground.  Let’s face it we are a much

> bigger country  

> >> than in 1921.

> >>

> >>

> >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage- 

> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Senger

> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:12 AM

> >> To: The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List

> 

=== message truncated ===>
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