I'm going to jump in to this immigration fray, thinking linguistically. Yes, I realize that the word 'alien" has a legal definition, but that choice of word cannot have been random when it entered the legal code. I'm thinking of the word for foreigner in the language I'm most familiar with, French, etranger, literally a stranger, someone 'foreign' to the culture. In the word of an oft-quoted welcome to church services, "Strangers are just friends we haven't met yet." If we attempt to get beyond this "otherness" language, and/or, and try to think "both/and," that being in one category doesn't preclude or even necessarily contradict being in another seemingly antithetical, than we'd be in more a positioin of openness and receptivity. I'd like to think that America is a nation that shares because it has enough to share. After all, if the US wants to "export" democracy to other countries (which may or may not be "open" to it), why should it be so surprising, if it is of such
 value, that others should seek to live in the country whose whom democracy supposedly is, and escapt the limitations and injustices of their own countries. 
On another note, though, I'd been talking with family members (don't do this at home!) about immigration, and my sister got into a whole discussion about her husband and my brother, a painter and a tree remover, respectively, who report that jobs that they could have had are taken by contractors who hire "Mexicans" (anyone who speaks Spanish?) who work more cheaply, then "they have to come in and clean up the mess." It all comes down to threat and value judgments, not high-minded sentiments, when we think of issues like immigration. In CT, the bill to allow "undocumented" children of "aliens" to receive in-state rates on college tuition is now on the governor's desk. Supporters maintain that it doesn't cost that much to the colleges, who are underenrolled in any event. It will be interesting to see what happens. When I've dealt with ESOL students, I don't even think about documented or not (and I've seen undocumented immigrants living in virtual slavery), I just think of
 someone who wants a chance. I've long wanted to emigrate to Scotland or France, and I am not allowed either, because any EU member has priority over any other non-EU member. And rather than just saying, oh well, that's their laws, I think, emotionally, that it's horribly unfair. I wish we had a world without borders....
Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D.


----- Original Message ----
From: Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 3:38:57 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1461] Re: [English Language 1441] Re: Immigration Bill - Correction


Kearney,

Just one thing: I am not qualified (legally) to give
immigration advice. I am not a lawyer, para legal, or
an officer of the court. Aside from saying "Go see a
lawyer", I simply would not give anyone my opinion or
my interpretation of an immigration law/act. As we've
seen in this discussion, there are as many
interpretations/opinions, as there are people. 

As an Immigrant Alien, I have always found the term
ridiculous and "alien". Semantic hair splitting or
not, it is a bit strange to be referred to as
"alien"... visions of green monsters come to mind.
Regards,
Ujwala



> On May 31, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kearney Lykins wrote:

> 

> > Sally,

> >

> > I concur that reaching agreement on the

> immigration issue is  

> > unlikely. Our disagreements are exacerbated though

> when people  

> > cannot even accept the given legal terms, which,

> if taken in  

> > context are not pejorative whatsoever. As I have

> pointed out  

> > before, in immigration terms "alien" is not

> pejorative; it is a  

> > legal status with plain meaning. Objecting to the

> term because it  

> > can be associated with other meanings (e.g., a

> being from another  

> > planet...) is like objecting to the term plaintiff

> because it might  

> > connote somebody who sits around complaining all

> day, or that a  

> > defendant acts defensively.

> >

> > If you were offering immigration advice to

> somebody wouldn't it be  

> > responsible to educate him/her on the pertinent

> legal terms and  

> > their true meanings?

> >

> >

> > Kearney Lykins

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message ----

> > From: Sally Bishop <bishopsl at cc.usu.edu>

> > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List  

> > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:10:52 PM

> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1448] Re: [English

> Language 1441] Re:  

> > Immigration Bill - Correction

> >

> > I know enough about the American lawmakers to know

> that "when" and  

> > "if" they ever pass a new immigration law... it

> won't be better and  

> > it won't be fair.  We are  a nation of laws, but

> we are also a  

> > nation that does not have to accept bad laws. 

> Hence the Supreme    

> > Court.  No we will never come to consensus on this

> issue no matter  

> > the level of our education or our understanding. 

> However, I would  

> > like to see all of us reexamine the language we

> use when talking  

> > about immigration.  For example, as far as I know

> I have never met  

> > anyone from another planet, and I believe that

> calling people  

> > "aliens" is pejorative.  (I haven't noted this

> used here.)

> >

> >  (After 6 months on this list, I just wrote my

> first complete  

> > sentence.  Maybe it is because today I  travelled

> 4 hours to see  

> > two of my 50 year old students attend the

> Naturalization Oath  

> > Ceremony.)

> >

> >

> >

> > On May 30, 2007, at 7:39 AM,

> carolkubota at comcast.net wrote:

> >

> >> "Field Hands" are the people who work in

> agriculture, in the  

> >> fields.  I live in Michigan and the farmers here

> are not able to  

> >> harvest their vegetable crops and will not be

> able to harvest the  

> >> fruit crops this summer because the "migrants"

> are not coming to  

> >> Michigan out of fear of being caught if they are

> illegal.  The  

> >> farmers are complaining because no one else wants

> to do this  

> >> backbreaking work and the fruits and vegetables

> will go to waste.

> >>

> >> -------------- Original message --------------

> >> From: "shirley burns" <threedog at cyberport.net>

> >> I know we will never come to a consensus on this

> issue.  I can’t  

> >> be persuaded that it is okay to disregard laws. 

> We are a nation  

> >> of laws and just because a law didn’t exist

> thirty years in its  

> >> current form doesn’t mean to ignore the law.  I

> teach ESL and have  

> >> many hard working students who are legal and I

> admire them  

> >> tremendously. They are working within the law and

> making good  

> >> progress in their new country.  I’m not sure what

> the “field  

> >> hands” mean.  I would think the law should rather

> they are a  

> >> doctor or a field hand.

> >>

> >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage- 

> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of

> carolkubota at comcast.net

> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:25 PM

> >> To: The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List

> >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1441] Re: Immigration

> Bill - Correction

> >>

> >>

> >> That is the exact same thing that many of the

> migrants are doing.   

> >> They come here and work hard, learn English and

> save as much as  

> >> they can.  I know many families who came here

> illegally and have  

> >> been able to send their children to college and

> their children are  

> >> now in the professioanl field.

> >>

> >>

> >> They are not all "field hands" forever.

> >>

> >>

> >> Everyone deserves a chance.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -------------- Original message --------------

> >> From: "Freeman, Leigh" <lfreeman at njn.org>

> >>

> >> My grandparents came from Poland…my maternal

> grandfather learned  

> >> enough English to survive and got a job in the

> coal mines in PA  

> >> and he worked hard. He had two houses, one to

> rent out and his  

> >> family always had food, shelter and medical care

> (that he paid  

> >> for). My paternal grandfather built a bakery in

> North Trenton NJ  

> >> and survived very well. The key issues with me

> are to learn the  

> >> language, get a job and to pay their way

> (medical, taxes,  

> >> whatever). They can’t do that if we keep this

> illegal thing going.

> >>

> >> Peace,

> >>

> >> Leigh Freeman

> >>

> >>

> >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage- 

> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley burns

> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:39 AM

> >> To: 'The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List'

> >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 1436] Re: Immigration

> Bill

> >>

> >>

> >> Not quite.  Ellis island served as a immigration

> format.  My  

> >> grandfather came from Sweden.  He took ESL

> classes at night and  

> >> worked during the day.  He gave learning English

> a high priority  

> >> because he wanted to get a job!  He didn’t

> receive any social  

> >> benefits.  He is the first to say that learning

> the language and  

> >> earning your way is your responsibility.  I think

> we need to see  

> >> the middle ground.  Let’s face it we are a much

> bigger country  

> >> than in 1921.

> >>

> >>

> >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage- 

> >> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Senger

> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:12 AM

> >> To: The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List

> 

=== message truncated ===>
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