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[EnglishLanguage 2327] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 17Andrea Canter lucidpandora at gmail.comTue May 6 14:01:54 EDT 2008
Thank you, Steve, for your cndor about your age. I have been a bit afraid of trying to take up new languages as I get older. I have also been afraid that there is a limit to how many languages one can learn! Thanks for sharing that- it helps a lot! Andrea On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:39 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. [EnglishLanguage 2324] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 (Martin Senger) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:36:28 -0400 > From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2324] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: > <C4FD03B248616142898446F1BE35F9DF02E58306 at gecacmail.gecac.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Pax all! > > I would agree with Steve on becoming more confident in learning multiple > languages, but would also add that after the experience of learning > several languages, a person understands better the "systems" (grammar, > pronunciation, whatnot) that languages use to communicate, which I feel > generally are more similar than not. It's not "They do WHAT?!" to "Oh, > that's how THEY do it." > > Martin E. Senger > Adult ESL Teacher > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center > Erie, Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:10 AM > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2323] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > > Just a short word on adults learning to pronounce foreign languages and > on acquiring a third or fourth language. > My wife and I like languages, and have had no trouble learning to speak > and pronounce the sounds of new languages. My wife is a native speaker > of Cantonese but speaks Japanese, Mandarin and Spanish and learned to > speak and pronounce French very well, after the age of 40. I speak 12 > languages now, but have learned Cantonese, Korean, Russian and > Portuguese just in the last 7 years (since the age of 55). > I find learning a third and fourth language different from learning a > second language only in the sense that as a learner you are more > confident that you will succeed, and that you have a better idea of how > to go about it. A major obstacle to learning languages is the lack of > confidence in, and even a lack of commitment to, the idea that you can > transform yourself into someone acting in another culture. Once you have > done it once, things become easier. > > Steve Kaufmann > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:38 PM, <robinschwarz1 at aol.com> wrote: > Andrea--there is a whole field devoted to multiple language acquisition. > Two researchers who have written or edited books about this are De > Angelis and Selinker--they published one in 2001 and another in 2007. > > Robin Schwarz > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 9:11 pm > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2315] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > I am curious how 3rd and 4th language learning differs from 2nd language > learning. In my own experience, once I started learning beyond the > second language I found myself getting all my languages confused. I > would think and say words in French when I was trying to speak German > and vice versa. This is good in respect to exercising the ability to > think in another language, but obviously very cumbersome. Is this > normally what happens? Is there ANY research on it at all? > > Andrea Canter > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:18 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > wrote: > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) > 2. [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs (Michael Tate) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 17:10:27 -0400 > From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Message-ID: <8CA7AB013B6B464-9C0-228A at webmail-dd18.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > See the work of Virginia Kuhl at the U of Washington, who is a > neuroscientist, as well as the work of Norman Segalowitz, and his > colleagues Gatbonton and Trofimovich, who do studies on adult language > acquisition for starters. This latter group, especially Gatbonton, have > theories about the progression of acquisition of phonological > information (i.e. sounds) in language acquisition. Gatbonton's framework > shows that this acquisition is gradual and predictable and subject to > exposure to native language speakers. ? These researchers do not comment > on the brain's ability to process language sounds. ? > > I find one has to dig deep in the literature of neuroscience to find the > information on how the brain processes language sounds as it matures, > but Kuhl is recognized as one of the lead researchers on this process.? > It has been very frustrating to me that ESL as a field tends to ignore > neuroscience and its information on how the brain learns language(s) as > well as the information coming out of international reading research, > which now also includes studies on the brain and how languages are > differentiated in it.? In addition, I feel that the whole field of > multiple language acquisition is equally ignored.? Acquiring a third or > fourth language is a very different process from acquiring a second > language.? As near as I can tell, a very large percentage, maybe the > majority, of our adult ESOL learners already speak two or more languages > when they begin to learn English, so I feel we should be looking at the > field of multiple language acquisition much more than at second language > a > cquisition .?? > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sally Bishop <s.bishop at aggiemail.usu.edu> > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 3:46 pm > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2301] Re: Minimal pairs > > > > > > > > > > Do you have research you can site on this comment: " > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study > are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate > pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language > learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not > translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately > anymore.?? Thus accents." > > S Bishop > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:46 PM, <robinschwarz1 at aol.com> wrote: > > > > > An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in > English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at > Amazon.com./textbooks.? This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all > contrasts in English and each page includes a) a list of languages for > which that particular contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in > both positions (actually side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences > with context d) a set of sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a > bug/bag on the table.)?? and e) a complete list of all minimal pairs for > that contrast.? It is an invaluable teaching resource.? Pronunciation > Pairs is a good place to start if you are unfamiliar with the practice > of minimal pairs, but it does not go far enough for review and mastery.? > Learners typically memorize the contrasting words in the pairsin that > book in lightning time, but do not generalize that skill to o > ther pairs, in my experience. > > > > I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and > manipulation (auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction > is better pronunciation.? I? know there has been discussion here > previously about the effectiveness of MPs out of context.? I do both-- a > lot of non-contextualized practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, > and have always seen a clear improvement--and learners report clear > improvement.? Teachers I coach who use this say their learners BEG for > this practice. When teachers use this, or I use this approach, I > emphasize that it is NOT a vocabulary exercise, but rather an auditory > discrimination practice and practice in associating specific sounds with > specific spellings.? Students often resist not knowing the meanings, but > the minute you include meanings, the listening part goes away.? > Different brain pathways are in play.?? > > > > > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study > are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate > pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language > learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not > translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately > anymore.?? Thus accents.? > > > > > An interesting study on adult Japanese showed that adults COULD learn to > say L vs r? more accurately in a study environment, but could not > generalize the new skill to informal conversation.? Nonetheless, > pronunciation experts ARE able to achieve improvement, if not > perfection.? There are LOTS of pronunciation aids out there- videos, > software, etc--Rosetta Stone has a feature where learners can see a > visigraph of what they say compared to a native model.? Learners LOVE > this and it apparently helps a LOT.?? I heard a terrific presenter at > the ACE of Florida conference last fall who does adult ESL pronunciation > improvement. She uses LOTS of minimal pair practice and she emphasized > the fact that to achieve improvement, you must do 100% correction.? That > is, no error goes unnoticed and uncorrected. This is essentially what > the study on Japanese did as well.? Obviously, you must have your > learners' buy-in to do that or they will cry in fr > ustr > ation.?? She does it as part of a pronunciation improvement course > where learners are there precisely to have their speech corrected. ? > > > > Mirrors are GREAT, as are "whisperphones"--those devices which look like > telephone receivers into which the learner speaks and can hear him or > herself saying sounds. Adult learners typically cannot hear that they > are not producing the sounds you want them to.?? > > > > > Don't forget as well, that speech pathologists can help a LOT in showing > learners how to place tongue and lips for more accurate pronunciation > (as long as they do not characterize speech differences that are the > result of first language differences as "speech impediments" or speech > problems--these are normal speech differences.). ? I have urged for over > 20 years that adult ESL should be working more closely with speech > pathologists? to help learners hear and pronounce better and to help > determine if there really ARE pronunciation problems even in first > language.?? > > > > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> > > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 9:47 am > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2295] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma, > > > > > ? > > > > > May I suggest that?listening procedures in teaching vowel and > consonant contrasts may be more important than pushing students into > immediate > repetition. A basic principle in phonological exercises of any kind is > that > listening and identification of sounds is of primary importance > before attempting repetition. If a student can't discriminate > the differences between two sounds, early attempts to produce them cause > the > students to hear their own voices and those of other class members > nearby,? > reinforcing existing problems. Identifying numerically seems to be the > easiest > and quickest route. If students can't correctly hear the sounds, > particularly > vowel sounds, they really can't make them. One of the problems with > English is > that we have more vowel and diphthong sounds than most languages we deal > with > and they are produced closer together. For example, Spanish has only one > high-front vowel sound, that of "piso" and it is between the English > beat and > bit sounds. I also have found that if we teach minimal pair listening in > single > words first, they should be followed by minimal sentences and then put > into an > open environment for speaking practice. Here is a sample exercise?for > the > same sounds that you gave, in medial position. Notice that consonants > after the > vowels are different, because of the fact that in English syllable > length > changes according to the consonants that follow:? beat (short) beef > (half > long) bead (long) and bees (very long). Try it. Most students have the > most > problems distinguishing the longer syllables. In Spanish, for example, > all > syllables remain short. Initial priority should always be given to the > ears. > > > > > > ? > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > MEDIAL > VOWEL EXERCISE-1 & 2-Track 6 > > > > > ? > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > -/i/-1??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > -/I/-2 > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > heat????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > hit > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > cease??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > sis > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > heed???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > hid > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > keen???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > kin > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > Lee's??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > Liz > > > > > ??????????????????????? > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > bead???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > bid > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????? > It was a great heat.?????????????????????????????? > It was a great hit. > > > > > ? > > > > > I saw a > cease fire????????????????????????????????? > I saw sis fire. > > > > > ? > > > > > We heed > it.?????????????????????????????????????????? > We hid it. > > > > > ? > > > > > They > were keen.?????????????????????????????????? > They were kin. > > > > > ? > > > > > It was > Lee's.???????????????????????????????????????? > It was Liz. > > > > > ? > > > > > See the > bead.?????????????????????????????????????? > See the bid. > > > > > ??????????????????????? > > > > > > ??????? > Don't hit it, heat it. > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > Will your sis ever cease? > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > We heed it and they hid it. > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > I'm keen to know her kin. > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > Liz is at Lee's house. > > > > > ? > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > We bid on the bead. > > > > > ? > > > > > > > ? > > > > > Here are the procedures that I use with my students. Vowel numbers are > permanent and used to identify sounds all of the time. Beat and bit > happen to > have the permanent numbers one?and two:?? > > > > > ? > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > 1. Put the pairs of words and > their identifiers on the marker board. Students are encouraged to copy > these > words in their notebooks, but are not given copies of the complete > exercises. > Students are encouraged to tape any exercises in class, rather than > practice > from the written language. My students receive an audio compact disk of > all > vowel sounds on their first day. > > > > > ? > > > > > 2. The instructor should repeat > these pairs of words with numbers both horizontally and vertically for > familiarization. Vowel numbers will remain consistent with numbers used > in the > vowel hatches. > > > > > ? > > > > > 3. The instructor will go to the > back of the room and call out words at random for the students to > identify > numerically. This identification exercises can be done as both group and > individual exercises.? Example: HIT > 2,? HEAT 1, HEAT 1, CEASE? 1, SIS 2, etc. If numerical errors are > heard, call out the correct number. When a majority of the students are > able to > call the numbers correctly, change to double words at random. HEAT HEAT > 1, > 1,? HIT HEAT? 2, 1,? HIT? HIT 2, 2. HIT HEAT, 2, 1. etc. > > > > > ? > > > > > 4. After most of the students are > responding accurately to the minimal pairs, switch to the minimal > sentence pairs. These sentence > exercises should all be performed without written reference. First > repeat > the sentences while the students listen. Next read the sentences at > unpredictable random and have the students identify target words in a > sentence > environment numerically. This will be more difficult, but will help the > students > to hear the sounds in a real structural environment. Continue this > exercise with > the group and with individuals. > > > > > ? > > > > > Example:? It was a great heat. (1) It was a great > hit (2) It was a great hit (2), etc. > > > > > ? > > > > > 5. Finally give the students oral > practice with?sentences in which the target sounds are in free > environments.? "Don't hit it, heat > it." Occasional corrections should be done gently, diplomatically and in > good > humor. If vowels 1, 3, 8 and 10 sound "flat" students can be instructed > on how > to make their mouth and throat muscles tense. To strengthen the oral and > throat > muscles takes time. Tongue twisters, "trabalenguas," which combine or > emphasize > target sounds, are useful and students often enjoy and memorize them. > > > > > ? > > > > > Vowel Numbers:? 1 > beat??? 2? bit??? 3? > bait??? 4? bet??? 5? bat?? 6 > bot (fly)??? 7?bought???8 boat?? > 9?book?? 10 boot?? 11. but > > > > > Diphthong > Numbers??? > 6+2???lied????6+9?? > loud????? 7+2??? Lloyd? > > > > > ? > > > > > Cheers,?? Ted > > > > > www.tedklein-ESL.com??? > > > > > > ????????????????????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Emma Bourassa" <ebourassa at tru.ca> > > > > > To: <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:41 PM > > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2294] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > >I believe it is Pronunciation Pairs that has illustrations, > single word and short dialogue practice. For example there might be: > > > > sit? seat > > > bit? beat > > > > > > etc. which is then worked > into a conversation: > > > A: Bea, have a seat. > > > B: I can eat but > can't sit. > > > A: Sit in the seat, and eat your meat. > > > B: No, I > need to knit. > > > sorta silly but they do work for slow practice of moving > the mouth and tongue around. > > > Pictures with mirrors so students can > watch themselves works well. > > > e > > > > > > Emma Bourassa > > > > English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a Second > Language Instructor > > > ESL Department > > > Thompson Rivers > University > > > 900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010 > > > Kamloops, B.C. V2C > 5N3 > > > (250) 371-5895 > > > fax 371-5514 > > > ebourassa at tru.ca > > > > > >>>> > > > > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > > > To: > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > Date: 29/04/2008 12:03 pm > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2292] Re: > EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue 18 > > > > > > Jenny, > > > > > > > Eek! That's the issue I'm coming up against soon. The way I've been > doing it > > > works with the roman alphabet (and easiest with just one native > language in > > > the group). I have this book that has Spanish translations > of English > > > vocabulary words. Then it has the pronunciation of the word > spelled out in > > > Spanish phonetics. I just borrow those phonetics for any > word I come across: > > > (ex. Raise your hand = reiz yor jand). Sometimes > there isn't a sound in > > > Spanish that quite matches the one in English and > I have to wrk around it > > > (ex. the word 'sit'.... there isn't anything in > Spanish that sounds like the > > > 'i' in that word.... I told my class it > sounds some where between 'eh' and > > > 'ee' and they got it). > > > > > > > The thing with non-Roman alphabets is unless you speak the language, > it > > > would be quite a task to do it that way. Then if you have people > with > > > differing languages, it would be even worse. If all the people in > your class > > > know the Roman alphabet, then I have a link to a website that > has books and > > > workshops on a unique system to teach pronunciation with. > I haven't tried > > > the method, but it looks really cool. Let me know if you > want the address. > > > Hope this (any of it) helps! > > > > > > > Andrea > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > wrote: > > > > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions > to > > >>??????? englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > >> > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > >>??????? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > > >>??????? englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > >> > > >> You can reach the person managing the list > at > > >>??????? englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > >> > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > more specific > > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage > digest..." > > >> > > >> > > >> Today's > Topics: > > >> > > >>?? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2291]? > computerless ESL instruction > > >>????? (Jenny > Hubler) > > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > Message: 1 > > >> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:57:35 -0500 > > >> From: > "Jenny Hubler" <JHubler at womenscenter.info> > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2291]? computerless ESL instruction > > >> > To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > List'" > > >>??????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > >> > Message-ID: <001a01c8a937$d1da28d0$d600a8c0 at womenscenter.info> > > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >> > > >> > Andrea: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Could you give more > details about how you teach pronunciation to speakers > > >> of > > >> > other languages? We have many Latinos, also some Koreans and a > student > > >> from > > >> > Sudan. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Jenny > > >> > > >> The Women's Center of Tarrant County, > TX > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>? > _____ > > >> > > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea > Canter > > >> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:58 PM > > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2290] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, > Issue > > >> 16 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> This is a > neat concept, but if you're like me and teach adults in venues > > >> > without computers there needs to be something else. Since my class > is > > >> entirely Hispanic, I use Spanish phonics to help. For some sounds > I have > > >> to > > >> go into further explanation because there is > no Spanish equivalent, but > > >> for > > >> the most part it > translates. This has worked SO well!! They have near > > >> perfect > pronunciation instantly!! I'm getting ready to start a class with > > >> > people from all over the world now. I have no idea how to address > the > > >> issue > > >> with them- any > suggestions?? > > >> > > >> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions > to > > >>?????? englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > >> > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > >>?????? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > > >>?????? englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > >> > > >> You can reach the person managing the list > at > > >>?????? englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > >> > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > more specific > > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage > digest..." > > >> > > >> > > >> Today's > Topics: > > >> > > >>? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line > dictionary with instant > > >>???? sound (Molly > Elkins) > > >>? 2. [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with > instant > > >>???? sound (Tom > Zurinskas) > > >>? 3. [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary > with instant > > >>???? sound (Elkins, Molly > (CR)) > > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > Message: 1 > > >> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > > >> From: > "Molly Elkins" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with > instant > > >>?????? sound > > >> To: > "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > List'" > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > >> > Message-ID: <004f01c8a62d$8c7cafe0$be070a0a at dpld.org> > > >> > Content-Type: text/plain;?????? > charset="us-ascii" > > >> > > >> I think it is pretty > interesting- > > >> > > >> My only concern is that it took some time > to load the sound- even on my > > >> pretty fast computer, AND it has a > British accent. Many of my learners > > >> have > > >> complained > about media that is British instead of American > pronunciation. > > >> > > >> Thank you, > > >> > > >> Molly > Elkins > > >> Literacy Specialist > > >> Douglas County > Libraries > > >> Phillip S. Miller Library > > >>? 100 S. Wilcox > Street > > >>? Castle Rock CO 80104 > > >>? Map > > >> > Direct Phone: (303)688-7646 > > >> Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > > >> > Fax: (303) 688-7655 > > >> Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > > >> > Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Daphne > Greenberg > > >> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with instant > sound > > >> > > >> ESL is not my area of expertise, so I don't know > if this site is good, or > > >> if > > >> it is a site that everyone > already knows about. A friend of mine > > >> introduced > > >> me to a > site described as? "An English Pronouncing Dictionary with > Instant > > >> Sound" I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a > great idea > > >> for > > >> learners struggling with pronunciation of > specific words. They need to > > >> have > > >> some proficiency with > English spelling in order to use the site because > > >> they > > >> > need to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > > >> > > >> > The url is:? http://howjsay.com/ > > > >> > > >> I am curious what people on this list think about this > site. > > >> > > >> Daphne > > >> > > >> Daphne > Greenberg > > >> Associate Professor > > >> Educational Psych. & > Special Ed. > > >> Georgia State University > > >> P.O. Box > 3979 > > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > > >> phone: > 404-413-8337 > > >> fax:404-413-8043 > > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > >> > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > >> Associate Director > > >> Center for the Study > of Adult Literacy > > >> Georgia State University > > >> P.O. Box > 3977 > > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > > >> phone: > 404-413-8337 > > >> fax:404-413-8043 > > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > > >> National > Institute for Literacy > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > list > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > > >> > > >> Message: 2 > > >> > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:13:32 +0000 > > >> From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with > instant > > >>?????? sound > > >> To: > The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > List > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>, cornell > Kimble <cornell9 at earthlink.net> > > >> > Message-ID: <BAY135-W4511FA4584E33E80584DDFD3DD0 at phx.gbl> > > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > >> > > >> > > >> m-w.com is a marvelous > dictionary that you can click on to hear words in > > >> US > > >> > accent.? The only nits I pick are what I call "awe-dropping" where > the > > >> sound > > >> "awe" is replaced sometimes by "ah".? > Click on the word "flaw" to hear it > > >> correctly (note, the word "awe" > is said "ah").? Another nit is that words > > >> starting with "ex-" > are said to be spoken as "ix-" (so example is > > >> ixample). > > >> > I don't think that is the norm in USA but perhaps UK. > > >> > > >> > Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+ > > >> See truespel.com - and > the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at > > >> > authorhouse.com. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > From: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > >> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > > >> > Subject: > [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > > >> > sound > > >> > > > >> > I think it is pretty > interesting- > > >> > > > >> > My only concern is that it took > some time to load the sound- even on my > > >> > pretty fast computer, > AND it has a British accent. Many of my learners > > >> have > > >> > > complained about media that is British instead of American > > >> > pronunciation. > > >> > > > >> > Thank you, > > >> > > > > >> > Molly Elkins > > >> > Literacy > Specialist > > >> > Douglas County Libraries > > >> > Phillip S. > Miller Library > > >> > 100 S. Wilcox Street > > >> > Castle > Rock CO 80104 > > >> > Map > > >> > Direct Phone: > (303)688-7646 > > >> > Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > > >> > Fax: > (303) 688-7655 > > >> > Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > > >> > > Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > >> > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Daphne > Greenberg > > >> > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > > >> > > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with > instant sound > > >> > > > >> > ESL is not my area of expertise, > so I don't know if this site is good, > > >> or > > >> if > > >> > > it is a site that everyone already knows about. A friend of > mine > > >> introduced > > >> > me to a site described as "An > English Pronouncing Dictionary with > > >> Instant > > >> > Sound" > I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a great idea > > >> > for > > >> > learners struggling with pronunciation of specific words. > They need to > > >> have > > >> > some proficiency with English > spelling in order to use the site because > > >> they > > >> > need > to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > > >> > > > >> > > The url is: http://howjsay.com/ > > > >> > > > >> > I am curious what people on this list think > about this site. > > >> > > > >> > Daphne > > >> > > > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > >> > Associate > Professor > > >> > Educational Psych. & Special Ed. > > >> > > Georgia State University > > >> > P.O. Box 3979 > > >> > > Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > > >> > phone: 404-413-8337 > > >> > > fax:404-413-8043 > > >> > dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > >> > > > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > >> > Associate > Director > > >> > Center for the Study of Adult Literacy > > >> > > Georgia State University > > >> > P.O. Box 3977 > > >> > > Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > > >> > phone: 404-413-8337 > > >> > > fax:404-413-8043 > > >> > dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > >> > National > Institute for Literacy > > >> > Adult English Language Learners mailing > list > > >> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go > to > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> > Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > >> > National > Institute for Literacy > > >> > Adult English Language Learners mailing > list > > >> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go > to > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> > Email delivered to truespel at hotmail.com > > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > > >> > Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. > Get > > >> in > > >> the game. > > >> > > >> > http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_apri > l08<http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08> > > > >> > > >> ------------------------------ > > >> > > >> > Message: 3 > > >> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:26:53 -0600 > > >> From: > "Elkins, Molly (CR)" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary with > instant > > >>?????? sound > > >> To: > The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > List > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > >> > Message-ID: <web-1497724 at bl-208.cluster1.echolabs.net> > > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >> > > >> An HTML > attachment was scrubbed... > > >> URL: > > >> > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a > 44f/<http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a44f/> > > > >> > attachment-0001.html<http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attac > hments/20080425/1599a44f/attachment-0001.html<http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a44f/attachment-0001.html> > > > > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------ > > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > > >> National > Institute for Literacy > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > list > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> > > >> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue > 16 > > >> > *********************************************** > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- > > >> An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > > >> URL: > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080428/af65b > 6b0/attachment-0001.html<http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080428/af65b6b0/attachment-0001.html> > > > >> > > >> ------------------------------ > > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > > >> National > Institute for Literacy > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > list > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > >> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > >> > > >> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue > 18 > > >> > *********************************************** > > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > National Institute > for Literacy > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > To > unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > National Institute for Literacy > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > National Institute for Literacy > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > Email delivered to bishopsl at cc.usu.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080502/3793d > 041/attachment.html<http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080502/3793d041/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:15:22 -0700 > From: "Michael Tate" <mtate at sbctc.edu> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs > To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: > <0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0317C444 at exch-1.sbctc2.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Robin and others: > > > > Unless one has had to learn to language with sounds that don't exist in > English, it can be very frustrating to watch students repeatedly fail at > making sounds that are very easy for fluent English speakers. > > > > Here's a sound from Thai that is diabolically difficult for most English > speakers. Try saying "nga". Here's a tip for saying it correctly: > say "sing-a" and then drop all the other sounds except the /ng/ > followed by short /a/. Once you think you have mastered it, try > saying it in the midst of a conversation . > > > > Here's a tip for teaching l/r. Ask your students to find something > that's about as thin as a pencil that they are willing to put in their > mouths. Tell the students to put the straw or pencil or whatever > against the back of their front teeth. Give them some minimal pairs > with "l/r" at the beginning, middle and end of words: luck ruck, mile > mire, etc. and that have the sounds in close proximity like "burlap" > "roller" , etc. To make the /l/ sound your tongue has to at least touch > the back of your front teeth. (In some English dialects, the /l/ sound > that isn't in an accented syllable or that is in the final position, > your tongue may not have to actually touch your teeth, but it get very, > very close to touching.) > > > > Having a pencil touching the back of the front teeth makes the student > hyper-aware if his/her tongue is touching the back of the teeth. > Modesty may require that some students cover their mouths with their > hands or a sheet of paper while doing this. > > > > After considerable practice (months), students won't need the pencil. > They still may not be able to make the /l/ consistently, but they'll > know when they weren't able to make /l/. > > > > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of > robinschwarz1 at aol.com > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:46 PM > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2298] Re: Minimal pairs > > > > An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in > English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at > Amazon.com./textbooks. This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all > contrasts in English and each page includes a) a list of languages for > which that particular contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in > both positions (actually side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences > with context d) a set of sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a > bug/bag on the table.) and e) a complete list of all minimal pairs for > that contrast. It is an invaluable teaching resource. Pronunciation > Pairs is a good place to start if you are unfamiliar with the practice > of minimal pairs, but it does not go far enough for review and mastery. > Learners typically memorize the contrasting words in the pairsin that > book in lightning time, but do not generalize that skill to o ther > pairs, in my experience. > > I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and > manipulation (auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction > is better pronunciation. I know there has been discussion here > previously about the effectiveness of MPs out of context. I do both-- a > lot of non-contextualized practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, > and have always seen a clear improvement--and learners report clear > improvement. Teachers I coach who use this say their learners BEG for > this practice. When teachers use this, or I use this approach, I > emphasize that it is NOT a vocabulary exercise, but rather an auditory > discrimination practice and practice in associating specific sounds with > specific spellings. Students often resist not knowing the meanings, but > the minute you include meanings, the listening part goes away. > Different brain pathways are in play. > > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study > are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate > pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language > learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not > translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately > anymore. Thus accents. > > An interesting study on adult Japanese showed that adults COULD learn to > say L vs r more accurately in a study environment, but could not > generalize the new skill to informal conversation. Nonetheless, > pronunciation experts ARE able to achieve improvement, if not > perfection. There are LOTS of pronunciation aids out there- videos, > software, etc--Rosetta Stone has a feature where learners can see a > visigraph of what they say compared to a native model. Learners LOVE > this and it apparently helps a LOT. I heard a terrific presenter at > the ACE of Florida conference last fall who does adult ESL pronunciation > improvement. She uses LOTS of minimal pair practice and she emphasized > the fact that to achieve improvement, you must do 100% correction. That > is, no error goes unnoticed and uncorrected. This is essentially what > the study on Japanese did as well. Obviously, you must have your > learners' buy-in to do that or they will cry in frustr ation. She does > it as part of a pronunciation improvement course where learners are > there precisely to have their speech corrected. > > Mirrors are GREAT, as are "whisperphones"--those devices which look like > telephone receivers into which the learner speaks and can hear him or > herself saying sounds. Adult learners typically cannot hear that they > are not producing the sounds you want them to. > > Don't forget as well, that speech pathologists can help a LOT in showing > learners how to place tongue and lips for more accurate pronunciation > (as long as they do not characterize speech differences that are the > result of first language differences as "speech impediments" or speech > problems--these are normal speech differences.). I have urged for over > 20 years that adult ESL should be working more closely with speech > pathologists to help learners hear and pronounce better and to help > determine if there really ARE pronunciation problems even in first > language. > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 9:47 am > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2295] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > 18 > > Emma, > > > > May I suggest that listening procedures in teaching vowel and consonant > contrasts may be more important than pushing students into immediate > repetition. A basic principle in phonological exercises of any kind is > that listening and identification of sounds is of primary importance > before attempting repetition. If a student can't discriminate the > differences between two sounds, early attempts to produce them cause the > students to hear their own voices and those of other class members > nearby, reinforcing existing problems. Identifying numerically seems to > be the easiest and quickest route. If students can't correctly hear the > sounds, particularly vowel sounds, they really can't make them. One of > the problems with English is that we have more vowel and diphthong > sounds than most languages we deal with and they are produced closer > together. For example, Spanish has only one high-front vowel sound, that > of "piso" and it is between the English beat and bit sounds. I also have > found that if we teach minimal pair listening in single words first, > they should be followed by minimal sentences and then put into an open > environment for speaking practice. Here is a sample exercise for the > same sounds that you gave, in medial position. Notice that consonants > after the vowels are different, because of the fact that in English > syllable length changes according to the consonants that follow: beat > (short) beef (half long) bead (long) and bees (very long). Try it. Most > students have the most problems distinguishing the longer syllables. In > Spanish, for example, all syllables remain short. Initial priority > should always be given to the ears. > > > > > > MEDIAL VOWEL EXERCISE-1 & 2-Track 6 > > > > > > -/i/-1 > -/I/-2 > > > > heat > hit > > > > cease > sis > > > > heed > hid > > > > keen > kin > > > > Lee's > Liz > > > > bead > bid > > > > It was a great heat. > It was a great hit. > > > > I saw a cease fire I saw sis fire. > > > > We heed it. We hid it. > > > > They were keen. They were kin. > > > > It was Lee's. It was Liz. > > > > See the bead. See the bid. > > > > Don't hit it, heat it. > > > > Will your sis ever cease? > > > > We heed it and they hid it. > > > > I'm keen to know her kin. > > > > Liz is at Lee's house. > > > > We bid on the bead. > > > > > > Here are the procedures that I use with my students. Vowel numbers are > permanent and used to identify sounds all of the time. Beat and bit > happen to have the permanent numbers one and two: > > > > > > 1. Put the pairs of words and their identifiers on the marker board. > Students are encouraged to copy these words in their notebooks, but are > not given copies of the complete exercises. Students are encouraged to > tape any exercises in class, rather than practice from the written > language. My students receive an audio compact disk of all vowel sounds > on their first day. > > > > 2. The instructor should repeat these pairs of words with numbers both > horizontally and vertically for familiarization. Vowel numbers will > remain consistent with numbers used in the vowel hatches. > > > > 3. The instructor will go to the back of the room and call out words at > random for the students to identify numerically. This identification > exercises can be done as both group and individual exercises. Example: > HIT 2, HEAT 1, HEAT 1, CEASE 1, SIS 2, etc. If numerical errors are > heard, call out the correct number. When a majority of the students are > able to call the numbers correctly, change to double words at random. > HEAT HEAT 1, 1, HIT HEAT 2, 1, HIT HIT 2, 2. HIT HEAT, 2, 1. etc. > > > > 4. After most of the students are responding accurately to the minimal > pairs, switch to the minimal sentence pairs. These sentence exercises > should all be performed without written reference. First repeat the > sentences while the students listen. Next read the sentences at > unpredictable random and have the students identify target words in a > sentence environment numerically. This will be more difficult, but will > help the students to hear the sounds in a real structural environment. > Continue this exercise with the group and with individuals. > > > > Example: It was a great heat. (1) It was a great hit (2) It was a great > hit (2), etc. > > > > 5. Finally give the students oral practice with sentences in which the > target sounds are in free environments. "Don't hit it, heat it." > Occasional corrections should be done gently, diplomatically and in good > humor. If vowels 1, 3, 8 and 10 sound "flat" students can be instructed > on how to make their mouth and throat muscles tense. To strengthen the > oral and throat muscles takes time. Tongue twisters, "trabalenguas," > which combine or emphasize target sounds, are useful and students often > enjoy and memorize them. > > > > Vowel Numbers: 1 beat 2 bit 3 bait 4 bet 5 bat 6 bot > (fly) 7 bought 8 boat 9 book 10 boot 11. but > > Diphthong Numbers 6+2 lied 6+9 loud 7+2 Lloyd > > > > Cheers, Ted > > www.tedklein-ESL.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Emma Bourassa" <ebourassa at tru.ca> > > To: <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:41 PM > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2294] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > 18 > > > > >I believe it is Pronunciation Pairs that has illustrations, single word > and short dialogue practice. For example there might be: > > sit seat > > bit beat > > > > etc. which is then worked into a conversation: > > A: Bea, have a seat. > > B: I can eat but can't sit. > > A: Sit in the seat, and eat your meat. > > B: No, I need to knit. > > sorta silly but they do work for slow practice of moving the mouth and > tongue around. > > Pictures with mirrors so students can watch themselves works well. > > e > > > > Emma Bourassa > > English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a > Second Language Instructor > > ESL Department > > Thompson Rivers University > > 900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010 > > Kamloops, B.C. V2C 5N3 > > (250) 371-5895 > > fax 371-5514 > > ebourassa at tru.ca > > > >>>> > > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > > To: <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Date: 29/04/2008 12:03 pm > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2292] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, > Issue 18 > > > > Jenny, > > > > Eek! That's the issue I'm coming up against soon. The way I've been > doing it > > works with the roman alphabet (and easiest with just one native > language in > > the group). I have this book that has Spanish translations of English > > vocabulary words. Then it has the pronunciation of the word spelled > out in > > Spanish phonetics. I just borrow those phonetics for any word I come > across: > > (ex. Raise your hand = reiz yor jand). Sometimes there isn't a sound > in > > Spanish that quite matches the one in English and I have to wrk around > it > > (ex. the word 'sit'.... there isn't anything in Spanish that sounds > like the > > 'i' in that word.... I told my class it sounds some where between 'eh' > and > > 'ee' and they got it). > > > > The thing with non-Roman alphabets is unless you speak the language, > it > > would be quite a task to do it that way. Then if you have people with > > differing languages, it would be even worse. If all the people in your > class > > know the Roman alphabet, then I have a link to a website that has > books and > > workshops on a unique system to teach pronunciation with. I haven't > tried > > the method, but it looks really cool. Let me know if you want the > address. > > Hope this (any of it) helps! > > > > Andrea > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > wrote: > > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > >> englishlanguage at nifl.gov > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. [EnglishLanguage 2291] computerless ESL instruction > >> (Jenny Hubler) > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:57:35 -0500 > >> From: "Jenny Hubler" <JHubler at womenscenter.info> > >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2291] computerless ESL instruction > >> To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'" > >> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > >> Message-ID: <001a01c8a937$d1da28d0$d600a8c0 at womenscenter.info> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > >> Andrea: > >> > >> > >> > >> Could you give more details about how you teach pronunciation to > speakers > >> of > >> other languages? We have many Latinos, also some Koreans and a > student > >> from > >> Sudan. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jenny > >> > >> The Women's Center of Tarrant County, TX > >> > >> > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > <mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Andrea Canter > >> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:58 PM > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2290] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, > Issue > >> 16 > >> > >> > >> > >> This is a neat concept, but if you're like me and teach adults in > venues > >> without computers there needs to be something else. Since my class is > >> entirely Hispanic, I use Spanish phonics to help. For some sounds I > have > >> to > >> go into further explanation because there is no Spanish equivalent, > but > >> for > >> the most part it translates. This has worked SO well!! They have near > >> perfect pronunciation instantly!! I'm getting ready to start a class > with > >> people from all over the world now. I have no idea how to address the > >> issue > >> with them- any suggestions?? > >> > >> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > >> englishlanguage at nifl.gov > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > >> sound (Molly Elkins) > >> 2. [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > >> sound (Tom Zurinskas) > >> 3. [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > >> sound (Elkins, Molly (CR)) > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > >> From: "Molly Elkins" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > >> sound > >> To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'" > >> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > >> Message-ID: <004f01c8a62d$8c7cafe0$be070a0a at dpld.org> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> > >> I think it is pretty interesting- > >> > >> My only concern is that it took some time to load the sound- even on > my > >> pretty fast computer, AND it has a British accent. Many of my > learners > >> have > >> complained about media that is British instead of American > pronunciation. > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Molly Elkins > >> Literacy Specialist > >> Douglas County Libraries > >> Phillip S. Miller Library > >> 100 S. Wilcox Street > >> Castle Rock CO 80104 > >> Map > >> Direct Phone: (303)688-7646 > >> Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > >> Fax: (303) 688-7655 > >> Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > >> Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > <mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?> ] On Behalf Of Daphne > Greenberg > >> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with instant sound > >> > >> ESL is not my area of expertise, so I don't know if this site is > good, or > >> if > >> it is a site that everyone already knows about. A friend of mine > >> introduced > >> me to a site described as "An English Pronouncing Dictionary with > Instant > >> Sound" I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a great > idea > >> for > >> learners struggling with pronunciation of specific words. They need > to > >> have > >> some proficiency with English spelling in order to use the site > because > >> they > >> need to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > >> > >> The url is: http://howjsay.com/ > >> > >> I am curious what people on this list think about this site. > >> > >> Daphne > >> > >> Daphne Greenberg > >> Associate Professor > >> Educational Psych. & Special Ed. > >> Georgia State University > >> P.O. Box 3979 > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > >> phone: 404-413-8337 > >> fax:404-413-8043 > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > >> > >> Daphne Greenberg > >> Associate Director > >> Center for the Study of Adult Literacy > >> Georgia State University > >> P.O. Box 3977 > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > >> phone: 404-413-8337 > >> fax:404-413-8043 > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > >> ---------------------------------------------------- > >> National Institute for Literacy > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing list > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > >> Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:13:32 +0000 > >> From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> > >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > >> sound > >> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List > >> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>, cornell Kimble < > cornell9 at earthlink.net> > >> Message-ID: <BAY135-W4511FA4584E33E80584DDFD3DD0 at phx.gbl> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> > >> m-w.com is a marvelous dictionary that you can click on to hear words > in > >> US > >> accent. The only nits I pick are what I call "awe-dropping" where > the > >> sound > >> "awe" is replaced sometimes by "ah". Click on the word "flaw" to > hear it > >> correctly (note, the word "awe" is said "ah"). Another nit is that > words > >> starting with "ex-" are said to be spoken as "ix-" (so example is > >> ixample). > >> I don't think that is the norm in USA but perhaps UK. > >> > >> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+ > >> See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" > at > >> authorhouse.com. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From: melkins at dclibraries.org > >> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > >> > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > >> > Subject: [Eng |