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[EnglishLanguage 2328] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 15Andrea Canter lucidpandora at gmail.comTue May 6 14:04:11 EDT 2008
Robin, Are their books pretty accessible to lay-people? Andrea On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. [EnglishLanguage 2322] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 22:38:24 -0400 > From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2322] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Message-ID: <8CA7D3963B24F38-A40-24F7 at webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Andrea--there is a whole field devoted to multiple language acquisition.? > Two researchers who have written or edited books about this are De Angelis > and Selinker--they published one in 2001 and another in 2007.? > > Robin Schwarz > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 9:11 pm > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2315] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue > 6 > > > > > > > > > > I am curious how 3rd and 4th language learning differs from 2nd language > learning. In my own experience, once I started learning beyond the second > language I found myself getting all my languages confused. I would think and > say words in French when I was trying to speak German and vice versa. This > is good in respect to exercising the ability to think in another language, > but obviously very cumbersome. Is this normally what happens? Is there ANY > research on it at all? > > > Andrea Canter > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:18 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: > > > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > > ? ? ? ?englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > ? ? ? ?http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > ? ? ? ?englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > ? ? ? ?englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > ? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) > > ? 2. [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs (Michael Tate) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 17:10:27 -0400 > > From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs > > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > Message-ID: <8CA7AB013B6B464-9C0-228A at webmail-dd18.sysops.aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > ?See the work of Virginia Kuhl at the U of Washington, who is a > neuroscientist, as well as the work of Norman Segalowitz, and his colleagues > Gatbonton and Trofimovich, who do studies on adult language acquisition for > starters. This latter group, especially Gatbonton, have theories about the > progression of acquisition of phonological information (i.e. sounds) in > language acquisition. Gatbonton's framework shows that this acquisition is > gradual and predictable and subject to exposure to native language speakers. > ? These researchers do not comment on the brain's ability to process > language sounds. ? > > > > > > I find one has to dig deep in the literature of neuroscience to find the > information on how the brain processes language sounds as it matures, but > Kuhl is recognized as one of the lead researchers on this process.? It has > been very frustrating to me that ESL as a field tends to ignore neuroscience > and its information on how the brain learns language(s) as well as the > information coming out of international reading research, which now also > includes studies on the brain and how languages are differentiated in it.? > In addition, I feel that the whole field of multiple language acquisition is > equally ignored.? Acquiring a third or fourth language is a very different > process from acquiring a second language.? As near as I can tell, a very > large percentage, maybe the majority, of our adult ESOL learners already > speak two or more languages when they begin to learn English, so I feel we > should be looking at the field of multiple language acquisition much more > than at second language a > > > > > ?cquisition .?? > > > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sally Bishop <s.bishop at aggiemail.usu.edu> > > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List < > englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 3:46 pm > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2301] Re: Minimal pairs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have research you can site on this comment: " > > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study > > are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate > > pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language > > learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not > > translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately > > anymore.?? Thus accents." > > > > S Bishop > > > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:46 PM, ?<robinschwarz1 at aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ?An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in > English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at > Amazon.com./textbooks.? This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all contrasts in > English and each page includes a) a list of languages for which that > particular contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in both positions > (actually side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences with context d) a > set of sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a bug/bag on the > table.)?? and e) a complete list of all minimal pairs for that contrast.? It > is an invaluable teaching resource.? Pronunciation Pairs is a good place to > start if you are unfamiliar with the practice of minimal pairs, but it does > not go far enough for review and mastery.? Learners typically memorize the > contrasting words in the pairsin that book in lightning time, but do not > generalize that skill to o > > > > ?ther pairs, in my experience. > > > > > > > > I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and > manipulation (auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction is > better pronunciation.? I? know there has been discussion here previously > about the effectiveness of MPs out of context.? I do both-- a lot of > non-contextualized practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, and have > always seen a clear improvement--and learners report clear improvement.? > Teachers I coach who use this say their learners BEG for this practice. When > teachers use this, or I use this approach, I emphasize that it is NOT a > vocabulary exercise, but rather an auditory discrimination practice and > practice in associating specific sounds with specific spellings.? Students > often resist not knowing the meanings, but the minute you include meanings, > the listening part goes away.? Different brain pathways are in play.?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study are > clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate pronunciation > of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language learner does not > process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not translate them into > speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately anymore.?? Thus accents.? > > > > > > > > > > > > An interesting study on adult Japanese showed that adults COULD learn to > say L vs r? more accurately in a study environment, but could not generalize > the new skill to informal conversation.? Nonetheless, pronunciation experts > ARE able to achieve improvement, if not perfection.? There are LOTS of > pronunciation aids out there- videos, software, etc--Rosetta Stone has a > feature where learners can see a visigraph of what they say compared to a > native model.? Learners LOVE this and it apparently helps a LOT.?? I heard a > terrific presenter at the ACE of Florida conference last fall who does adult > ESL pronunciation improvement. She uses LOTS of minimal pair practice and > she emphasized the fact that to achieve improvement, you must do 100% > correction.? That is, no error goes unnoticed and uncorrected. This is > essentially what the study on Japanese did as well.? Obviously, you must > have your learners' buy-in to do that or they will cry in fr > > > > ?ustr > > ?ation.?? She does it as part of a pronunciation improvement course where > learners are there precisely to have their speech corrected. ? > > > > > > > > Mirrors are GREAT, as are "whisperphones"--those devices which look like > telephone receivers into which the learner speaks and can hear him or > herself saying sounds. Adult learners typically cannot hear that they are > not producing the sounds you want them to.?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget as well, that speech pathologists can help a LOT in showing > learners how to place tongue and lips for more accurate pronunciation (as > long as they do not characterize speech differences that are the result of > first language differences as "speech impediments" or speech problems--these > are normal speech differences.). ? I have urged for over 20 years that adult > ESL should be working more closely with speech pathologists? to help > learners hear and pronounce better and to help determine if there really ARE > pronunciation problems even in first language.?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> > > > > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List < > englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 9:47 am > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2295] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma, > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > May I suggest that?listening procedures in teaching vowel and > > consonant contrasts may be more important than pushing students into > immediate > > repetition. A basic principle in phonological exercises of any kind is > that > > listening and identification of sounds is of primary importance > > before attempting repetition. If a student can't discriminate > > the differences between two sounds, early attempts to produce them cause > the > > students to hear their own voices and those of other class members > nearby,? > > reinforcing existing problems. Identifying numerically seems to be the > easiest > > and quickest route. If students can't correctly hear the sounds, > particularly > > vowel sounds, they really can't make them. One of the problems with > English is > > that we have more vowel and diphthong sounds than most languages we deal > with > > and they are produced closer together. For example, Spanish has only one > > high-front vowel sound, that of "piso" and it is between the English beat > and > > bit sounds. I also have found that if we teach minimal pair listening in > single > > words first, they should be followed by minimal sentences and then put > into an > > open environment for speaking practice. Here is a sample exercise?for the > > same sounds that you gave, in medial position. Notice that consonants > after the > > vowels are different, because of the fact that in English syllable length > > changes according to the consonants that follow:? beat (short) beef (half > > long) bead (long) and bees (very long). Try it. Most students have the > most > > problems distinguishing the longer syllables. In Spanish, for example, all > > syllables remain short. Initial priority should always be given to the > ears. > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MEDIAL > > VOWEL EXERCISE-1 & 2-Track 6 > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > -/i/-1??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > -/I/-2 > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > heat????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > hit > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > cease??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > sis > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > heed???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > hid > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > keen???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > kin > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > Lee's??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > Liz > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > bead???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > bid > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????? > > It was a great heat.?????????????????????????????? > > It was a great hit. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > I saw a > > cease fire????????????????????????????????? > > I saw sis fire. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > We heed > > it.?????????????????????????????????????????? > > We hid it. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > They > > were keen.?????????????????????????????????? > > They were kin. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > It was > > Lee's.???????????????????????????????????????? > > It was Liz. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > See the > > bead.?????????????????????????????????????? > > See the bid. > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > ??????? > > Don't hit it, heat it. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > Will your sis ever cease? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > We heed it and they hid it. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > I'm keen to know her kin. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > Liz is at Lee's house. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > We bid on the bead. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Here are the procedures that I use with my students. Vowel numbers are > > permanent and used to identify sounds all of the time. Beat and bit happen > to > > have the permanent numbers one?and two:?? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Put the pairs of words and > > their identifiers on the marker board. Students are encouraged to copy > these > > words in their notebooks, but are not given copies of the complete > exercises. > > Students are encouraged to tape any exercises in class, rather than > practice > > from the written language. My students receive an audio compact disk of > all > > vowel sounds on their first day. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 2. The instructor should repeat > > these pairs of words with numbers both horizontally and vertically for > > familiarization. Vowel numbers will remain consistent with numbers used in > the > > vowel hatches. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 3. The instructor will go to the > > back of the room and call out words at random for the students to identify > > numerically. This identification exercises can be done as both group and > > individual exercises.? Example: HIT > > 2,? HEAT 1, HEAT 1, CEASE? 1, SIS 2, etc. If numerical errors are > > heard, call out the correct number. When a majority of the students are > able to > > call the numbers correctly, change to double words at random. HEAT HEAT 1, > > 1,? HIT HEAT? 2, 1,? HIT? HIT 2, 2. HIT HEAT, 2, 1. etc. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 4. After most of the students are > > responding accurately to the minimal pairs, switch to the minimal sentence > pairs. These sentence > > exercises should all be performed without written reference. First repeat > > the sentences while the students listen. Next read the sentences at > > unpredictable random and have the students identify target words in a > sentence > > environment numerically. This will be more difficult, but will help the > students > > to hear the sounds in a real structural environment. Continue this > exercise with > > the group and with individuals. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Example:? It was a great heat. (1) It was a great > > hit (2) It was a great hit (2), etc. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 5. Finally give the students oral > > practice with?sentences in which the target sounds are in free > > environments.? "Don't hit it, heat > > it." Occasional corrections should be done gently, diplomatically and in > good > > humor. If vowels 1, 3, 8 and 10 sound "flat" students can be instructed on > how > > to make their mouth and throat muscles tense. To strengthen the oral and > throat > > muscles takes time. Tongue twisters, "trabalenguas," which combine or > emphasize > > target sounds, are useful and students often enjoy and memorize them. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Vowel Numbers:? 1 > > beat??? 2? bit??? 3? > > bait??? 4? bet??? 5? bat?? 6 > > bot (fly)??? 7?bought???8 boat?? > > 9?book?? 10 boot?? 11. but > > > > > > > > > > Diphthong > > Numbers??? > > 6+2???lied????6+9?? > > loud????? 7+2??? Lloyd? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers,?? Ted > > > > > > > > > > www.tedklein-ESL.com??? > > > > > > > > > > > > ????????????????????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Emma Bourassa" <ebourassa at tru.ca> > > > > > > > > > > To: <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2294] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I believe it is Pronunciation Pairs that has illustrations, > > single word and short dialogue practice. For example there might be: > > > > > > > sit? seat > > > > > bit? beat > > > > > > > > > > etc. which is then worked > > into a conversation: > > > > > A: Bea, have a seat. > > > > > B: I can eat but > > can't sit. > > > > > A: Sit in the seat, and eat your meat. > > > > > B: No, I > > need to knit. > > > > > sorta silly but they do work for slow practice of moving > > the mouth and tongue around. > > > > > Pictures with mirrors so students can > > watch themselves works well. > > > > > e > > > > > > > > > > Emma Bourassa > > > > > > > English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a Second > > Language Instructor > > > > > ESL Department > > > > > Thompson Rivers > > University > > > > > 900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010 > > > > > Kamloops, B.C. V2C > > 5N3 > > > > > (250) 371-5895 > > > > > fax 371-5514 > > > > > ebourassa at tru.ca > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > > > > > To: > > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > > > > Date: 29/04/2008 12:03 pm > > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2292] Re: > > EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue 18 > > > > > > > > > > Jenny, > > > > > > > > > > > > Eek! That's the issue I'm coming up against soon. The way I've been > > doing it > > > > > works with the roman alphabet (and easiest with just one native > > language in > > > > > the group). I have this book that has Spanish translations > > of English > > > > > vocabulary words. Then it has the pronunciation of the word > > spelled out in > > > > > Spanish phonetics. I just borrow those phonetics for any > > word I come across: > > > > > (ex. Raise your hand = reiz yor jand). Sometimes > > there isn't a sound in > > > > > Spanish that quite matches the one in English and > > I have to wrk around it > > > > > (ex. the word 'sit'.... there isn't anything in > > Spanish that sounds like the > > > > > 'i' in that word.... I told my class it > > sounds some where between 'eh' and > > > > > 'ee' and they got it). > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing with non-Roman alphabets is unless you speak the language, > > it > > > > > would be quite a task to do it that way. Then if you have people > > with > > > > > differing languages, it would be even worse. If all the people in > > your class > > > > > know the Roman alphabet, then I have a link to a website that > > has books and > > > > > workshops on a unique system to teach pronunciation with. > > I haven't tried > > > > > the method, but it looks really cool. Let me know if you > > want the address. > > > > > Hope this (any of it) helps! > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrea > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions > > to > > > > >>??????? englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > > visit > > > > >>??????? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > > to > > > > >>??????? englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > > > >>??????? englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > > more specific > > > > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage > > digest..." > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Today's > > Topics: > > > > >> > > > > >>?? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2291]? > > computerless ESL instruction > > > > >>????? (Jenny > > Hubler) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Message: 1 > > > > >> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:57:35 -0500 > > > > >> From: > > "Jenny Hubler" <JHubler at womenscenter.info> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2291]? computerless ESL instruction > > > > >> > > To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List'" > > > > >>??????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <001a01c8a937$d1da28d0$d600a8c0 at womenscenter.info> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Andrea: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Could you give more > > details about how you teach pronunciation to speakers > > > > >> of > > > > >> > > other languages? We have many Latinos, also some Koreans and a > > student > > > > >> from > > > > >> > > Sudan. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Jenny > > > > >> > > > > >> The Women's Center of Tarrant County, > > TX > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>? > > _____ > > > > >> > > > > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea > > Canter > > > > >> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:58 PM > > > > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2290] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, > > Issue > > > > >> 16 > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> This is a > > neat concept, but if you're like me and teach adults in venues > > > > >> > > without computers there needs to be something else. Since my class > > is > > > > >> entirely Hispanic, I use Spanish phonics to help. For some sounds > > I have > > > > >> to > > > > >> go into further explanation because there is > > no Spanish equivalent, but > > > > >> for > > > > >> the most part it > > translates. This has worked SO well!! They have near > > > > >> perfect > > pronunciation instantly!! I'm getting ready to start a class with > > > > >> > > people from all over the world now. I have no idea how to address > > the > > > > >> issue > > > > >> with them- any > > suggestions?? > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions > > to > > > > >>?????? englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > > visit > > > > >>?????? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > > to > > > > >>?????? englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > > > >>?????? englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > > more specific > > > > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage > > digest..." > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Today's > > Topics: > > > > >> > > > > >>? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line > > dictionary with instant > > > > >>???? sound (Molly > > Elkins) > > > > >>? 2. [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>???? sound (Tom > > Zurinskas) > > > > >>? 3. [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary > > with instant > > > > >>???? sound (Elkins, Molly > > (CR)) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Message: 1 > > > > >> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > > > > >> From: > > "Molly Elkins" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>?????? sound > > > > >> To: > > "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List'" > > > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <004f01c8a62d$8c7cafe0$be070a0a at dpld.org> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain;?????? > > charset="us-ascii" > > > > >> > > > > >> I think it is pretty > > interesting- > > > > >> > > > > >> My only concern is that it took some time > > to load the sound- even on my > > > > >> pretty fast computer, AND it has a > > British accent. Many of my learners > > > > >> have > > > > >> complained > > about media that is British instead of American > > pronunciation. > > > > >> > > > > >> Thank you, > > > > >> > > > > >> Molly > > Elkins > > > > >> Literacy Specialist > > > > >> Douglas County > > Libraries > > > > >> Phillip S. Miller Library > > > > >>? 100 S. Wilcox > > Street > > > > >>? Castle Rock CO 80104 > > > > >>? Map > > > > >> > > Direct Phone: (303)688-7646 > > > > >> Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > > > > >> > > Fax: (303) 688-7655 > > > > >> Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > >> > > Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Daphne > > Greenberg > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > > > > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with instant > > sound > > > > >> > > > > >> ESL is not my area of expertise, so I don't know > > if this site is good, or > > > > >> if > > > > >> it is a site that everyone > > already knows about. A friend of mine > > > > >> introduced > > > > >> me to a > > site described as? "An English Pronouncing Dictionary with > > Instant > > > > >> Sound" I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a > > great idea > > > > >> for > > > > >> learners struggling with pronunciation of > > specific words. They need to > > > > >> have > > > > >> some proficiency with > > English spelling in order to use the site because > > > > >> they > > > > >> > > need to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > The url is:? http://howjsay.com/ > > > > > > >> > > > > >> I am curious what people on this list think about this > > site. > > > > >> > > > > >> Daphne > > > > >> > > > > >> Daphne > > Greenberg > > > > >> Associate Professor > > > > >> Educational Psych. & > > Special Ed. > > > > >> Georgia State University > > > > >> P.O. Box > > 3979 > > > > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > > > > >> phone: > > 404-413-8337 > > > > >> fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Daphne Greenberg > > > > >> Associate Director > > > > >> Center for the Study > > of Adult Literacy > > > > >> Georgia State University > > > > >> P.O. Box > > 3977 > > > > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > > > > >> phone: > > 404-413-8337 > > > > >> fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> Message: 2 > > > > >> > > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:13:32 +0000 > > > > >> From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>?????? sound > > > > >> To: > > The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List > > > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>, cornell > > Kimble <cornell9 at earthlink.net> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <BAY135-W4511FA4584E33E80584DDFD3DD0 at phx.gbl> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> m-w.com is a marvelous > > dictionary that you can click on to hear words in > > > > >> US > > > > >> > > accent.? The only nits I pick are what I call "awe-dropping" where > > the > > > > >> sound > > > > >> "awe" is replaced sometimes by "ah".? > > Click on the word "flaw" to hear it > > > > >> correctly (note, the word "awe" > > is said "ah").? Another nit is that words > > > > >> starting with "ex-" > > are said to be spoken as "ix-" (so example is > > > > >> ixample). > > > > >> > > I don't think that is the norm in USA but perhaps UK. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+ > > > > >> See truespel.com - and > > the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at > > > > >> > > authorhouse.com. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > From: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > > > >> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > > > > >> > Subject: > > [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > > > > >> > > sound > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I think it is pretty > > interesting- > > > > >> > > > > > >> > My only concern is that it took > > some time to load the sound- even on my > > > > >> > pretty fast computer, > > AND it has a British accent. Many of my learners > > > > >> have > > > > >> > > > complained about media that is British instead of American > > > > >> > > pronunciation. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thank you, > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Molly Elkins > > > > >> > Literacy > > Specialist > > > > >> > Douglas County Libraries > > > > >> > Phillip S. > > Miller Library > > > > >> > 100 S. Wilcox Street > > > > >> > Castle > > Rock CO 80104 > > > > >> > Map > > > > >> > Direct Phone: > > (303)688-7646 > > > > >> > Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > > > > >> > Fax: > > (303) 688-7655 > > > > >> > Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > >> > > > Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > > > > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > > > >> > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Daphne > > Greenberg > > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > > > > >> > > > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with > > instant sound > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ESL is not my area of expertise, > > so I don't know if this site is good, > > > > >> or > > > > >> if > > > > >> > > > it is a site that everyone already knows about. A friend of > > mine > > > > >> introduced > > > > >> > me to a site described as "An > > English Pronouncing Dictionary with > > > > >> Instant > > > > >> > Sound" > > I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a great idea > > > > >> > > for > > > > >> > learners struggling with pronunciation of specific words. > > They need to > > > > >> have > > > > >> > some proficiency with English > > spelling in order to use the site because > > > > >> they > > > > >> > need > > to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > The url is: http://howjsay.com/ > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I am curious what people on this list think > > about this site. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Daphne > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > > > >> > Associate > > Professor > > > > >> > Educational Psych. & Special Ed. > > > > >> > > > Georgia State University > > > > >> > P.O. Box 3979 > > > > >> > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > > > > >> > phone: 404-413-8337 > > > > >> > > > fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> > dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > > > >> > Associate > > Director > > > > >> > Center for the Study of Adult Literacy > > > > >> > > > Georgia State University > > > > >> > P.O. Box 3977 > > > > >> > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > > > > >> > phone: 404-413-8337 > > > > >> > > > fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> > dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> > Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go > > to > > > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> > Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go > > to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > Email delivered to truespel at hotmail.com > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > >> > > Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. > > Get > > > > >> in > > > > >> the game. > > > > >> > > > > >> > http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08 > > > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Message: 3 > > > > >> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:26:53 -0600 > > > > >> From: > > "Elkins, Molly (CR)" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>?????? sound > > > > >> To: > > The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List > > > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <web-1497724 at bl-208.cluster1.echolabs.net> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > >> > > > > >> An HTML > > attachment was scrubbed... > > > > >> URL: > > > > >> > > > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a44f/ > > > > > > >> attachment-0001.html< > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a44f/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > > > > >> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue > > 16 > > > > >> > > *********************************************** > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > >> An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... > > > > >> URL: > > > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080428/af65b6b0/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > > > > >> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue > > 18 > > > > >> > > *********************************************** > > > > >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > National Institute > > for Literacy > > > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > To > > unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > > Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > National Institute for Literacy > > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > National Institute for Literacy > > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > Email delivered to bishopsl at cc.usu.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > National Institute for Literacy > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080502/3793d041/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:15:22 -0700 > > From: "Michael Tate" <mtate at sbctc.edu> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs > > To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" > > ? ? ? ?<englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Message-ID: > > ? ? ? ?<0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0317C444 at exch-1.sbctc2.local> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Robin and others: > > > > > > > > Unless one has had to learn to language with sounds that don't exist in > > English, it can be very frustrating to watch students repeatedly fail at > > making sounds that are very easy for fluent English speakers. > > > > > > > > Here's a sound from Thai that is diabolically difficult for most English > > speakers. ?Try saying "nga". ? Here's a tip for saying it correctly: > > say "sing-a" and then ?drop all the other sounds except the /ng/ > > followed by short /a/. ? ?Once you think you have mastered it, try > > saying it in the midst of ?a ?conversation . > > > > > > > > Here's a tip for teaching l/r. ?Ask your ?students to find something > > that's about as thin as a pencil that they are willing to put in their > > mouths. ?Tell the students to put the straw or pencil ?or whatever > > against the back of their front teeth. ?Give them some minimal pairs > > with "l/r" at the beginning, middle and end of words: ?luck ruck, mile > > mire, etc. ?and that have the sounds in close proximity like "burlap" > > "roller" , etc. ?To make the /l/ sound your tongue has to at least touch > > the back of your front teeth. (In some English dialects, the /l/ ?sound > > that isn't in an accented syllable or that is in the final position, > > your tongue may not have to actually touch your teeth, but it get very, > > very close to touching.) > > > > > > > > Having a pencil touching the back of the front teeth makes the student > > hyper-aware if his/her tongue is touching the back of the teeth. > > Modesty may require that some students cover their mouths with their > > hands or ?a sheet of paper while doing this. > > > > > > > > After considerable practice (months), students won't need the pencil. > > They still may not be able to make the /l/ consistently, but they'll > > know when they weren't able to make /l/. > > > > > > > > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of > > robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:46 PM > > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2298] Re: Minimal pairs > > > > > > > > An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in > > English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at > > Amazon.com./textbooks. ?This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all > > contrasts in English and each page includes a) a list of languages for > > which that particular contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in > > both positions (actually side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences > > with context d) a set of sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a > > bug/bag on the table.) ? and e) a complete list of all minimal pairs for > > that contrast. ?It is an invaluable teaching resource. ?Pronunciation > > Pairs is a good place to start if you are unfamiliar with the practice > > of minimal pairs, but it does not go far enough for review and mastery. > > Learners typically memorize the contrasting words in the pairsin that > > book in lightning time, but do not generalize that skill to o ther > > pairs, in my experience. > > > > I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and > > manipulation (auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction > > is better pronunciation. ?I ?know there has been discussion here > > previously about the effectiveness of MPs out of context. ?I do both-- a > > lot of non-contextualized practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, > > and have always seen a clear improvement--and learners report clear > > improvement. ?Teachers I coach who use this say their learners BEG for > > this practice. When teachers use this, or I use this ap |