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[EnglishLanguage 2334] Re: Multiple language learningSteve Kaufmann steve at thelinguist.comTue May 6 16:21:51 EDT 2008
Language learning requires motivation. The important thing with children is to get them to like languages, to open their eyes and ears to the music and logic other worlds, and to avoid burdening them with concerns about what is correct syntax, nor giving them the idea that it is something that the parents wants them to do. To some extent you have to love a language to learn it. I would not favour any kind of mechanical or subliminal language learning experiments. Why not just let children listen to stories and read them when they are awake. We want them to be awake to discover the delights of different languages and cultures. Having tried to get my own children to learn languages and failed, I would suggest that any deliberate effort to push languages at children is very likely to fail. Steve On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Martin Senger <MSenger at gecac.org> wrote: > Pax all! > > > > Praised be for the Internet! I did a quick google, and found the tem " > hypnopedia." It refers explicitly to learning while sleeping. While pretty > much debunked for general learning, I saw nothing which talks strictly about > sound processing. Just from my own experience, there may be something to it. > I know, from the aforementioned 4 & 2-year olds, if they make even the > slightest "odd" sound while I am sleeping, I am instantly wide awake. I then > listen intently (hence the "wide awake") to hear any follow-up sounds worth > investigating. So, that must mean my brain is in some way processing some > sounds. > > > > Now I am not saying you could learn another "language" while sleeping, but > is it possible that we could introduce, or maybe even "teach" new language > sounds to the sleeping brain? What say you? > > > > Martin E. Senger > > Adult ESL Teacher > > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center > > Erie, Pa > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto: > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Andrea Canter > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:04 PM > *To:* englishlanguage at nifl.gov > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2328] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 15 > > > > Robin, > > Are their books pretty accessible to lay-people? > > Andrea > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: > > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. [EnglishLanguage 2322] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 22:38:24 -0400 > From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2322] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, > Issue 6 > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Message-ID: <8CA7D3963B24F38-A40-24F7 at webmail-me15.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Andrea--there is a whole field devoted to multiple language acquisition.? > Two researchers who have written or edited books about this are De Angelis > and Selinker--they published one in 2001 and another in 2007.? > > Robin Schwarz > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 9:11 pm > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2315] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue > 6 > > > > > > > > > > I am curious how 3rd and 4th language learning differs from 2nd language > learning. In my own experience, once I started learning beyond the second > language I found myself getting all my languages confused. I would think and > say words in French when I was trying to speak German and vice versa. This > is good in respect to exercising the ability to think in another language, > but obviously very cumbersome. Is this normally what happens? Is there ANY > research on it at all? > > > Andrea Canter > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:18 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote: > > > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to > > ? ? ? ?englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > ? ? ? ?http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > ? ? ? ?englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > ? ? ? ?englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > ? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs (robinschwarz1 at aol.com) > > ? 2. [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs (Michael Tate) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 17:10:27 -0400 > > From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs > > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > Message-ID: <8CA7AB013B6B464-9C0-228A at webmail-dd18.sysops.aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > ?See the work of Virginia Kuhl at the U of Washington, who is a > neuroscientist, as well as the work of Norman Segalowitz, and his colleagues > Gatbonton and Trofimovich, who do studies on adult language acquisition for > starters. This latter group, especially Gatbonton, have theories about the > progression of acquisition of phonological information (i.e. sounds) in > language acquisition. Gatbonton's framework shows that this acquisition is > gradual and predictable and subject to exposure to native language speakers. > ? These researchers do not comment on the brain's ability to process > language sounds. ? > > > > > > I find one has to dig deep in the literature of neuroscience to find the > information on how the brain processes language sounds as it matures, but > Kuhl is recognized as one of the lead researchers on this process.? It has > been very frustrating to me that ESL as a field tends to ignore neuroscience > and its information on how the brain learns language(s) as well as the > information coming out of international reading research, which now also > includes studies on the brain and how languages are differentiated in it.? > In addition, I feel that the whole field of multiple language acquisition is > equally ignored.? Acquiring a third or fourth language is a very different > process from acquiring a second language.? As near as I can tell, a very > large percentage, maybe the majority, of our adult ESOL learners already > speak two or more languages when they begin to learn English, so I feel we > should be looking at the field of multiple language acquisition much more > than at second language a > > > > > ?cquisition .?? > > > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sally Bishop <s.bishop at aggiemail.usu.edu> > > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List < > englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 3:46 pm > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2301] Re: Minimal pairs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have research you can site on this comment: " > > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study > > are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate > > pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language > > learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not > > translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately > > anymore.?? Thus accents." > > > > S Bishop > > > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:46 PM, ?<robinschwarz1 at aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ?An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in > English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at > Amazon.com./textbooks.? This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all contrasts in > English and each page includes a) a list of languages for which that > particular contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in both positions > (actually side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences with context d) a > set of sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a bug/bag on the > table.)?? and e) a complete list of all minimal pairs for that contrast.? It > is an invaluable teaching resource.? Pronunciation Pairs is a good place to > start if you are unfamiliar with the practice of minimal pairs, but it does > not go far enough for review and mastery.? Learners typically memorize the > contrasting words in the pairsin that book in lightning time, but do not > generalize that skill to o > > > > ?ther pairs, in my experience. > > > > > > > > I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and > manipulation (auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction is > better pronunciation.? I? know there has been discussion here previously > about the effectiveness of MPs out of context.? I do both-- a lot of > non-contextualized practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, and have > always seen a clear improvement--and learners report clear improvement.? > Teachers I coach who use this say their learners BEG for this practice. When > teachers use this, or I use this approach, I emphasize that it is NOT a > vocabulary exercise, but rather an auditory discrimination practice and > practice in associating specific sounds with specific spellings.? Students > often resist not knowing the meanings, but the minute you include meanings, > the listening part goes away.? Different brain pathways are in play.?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study are > clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate pronunciation > of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language learner does not > process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not translate them into > speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately anymore.?? Thus accents.? > > > > > > > > > > > > An interesting study on adult Japanese showed that adults COULD learn to > say L vs r? more accurately in a study environment, but could not generalize > the new skill to informal conversation.? Nonetheless, pronunciation experts > ARE able to achieve improvement, if not perfection.? There are LOTS of > pronunciation aids out there- videos, software, etc--Rosetta Stone has a > feature where learners can see a visigraph of what they say compared to a > native model.? Learners LOVE this and it apparently helps a LOT.?? I heard a > terrific presenter at the ACE of Florida conference last fall who does adult > ESL pronunciation improvement. She uses LOTS of minimal pair practice and > she emphasized the fact that to achieve improvement, you must do 100% > correction.? That is, no error goes unnoticed and uncorrected. This is > essentially what the study on Japanese did as well.? Obviously, you must > have your learners' buy-in to do that or they will cry in fr > > > > ?ustr > > ?ation.?? She does it as part of a pronunciation improvement course where > learners are there precisely to have their speech corrected. ? > > > > > > > > Mirrors are GREAT, as are "whisperphones"--those devices which look like > telephone receivers into which the learner speaks and can hear him or > herself saying sounds. Adult learners typically cannot hear that they are > not producing the sounds you want them to.?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't forget as well, that speech pathologists can help a LOT in showing > learners how to place tongue and lips for more accurate pronunciation (as > long as they do not characterize speech differences that are the result of > first language differences as "speech impediments" or speech problems--these > are normal speech differences.). ? I have urged for over 20 years that adult > ESL should be working more closely with speech pathologists? to help > learners hear and pronounce better and to help determine if there really ARE > pronunciation problems even in first language.?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Robin Lovrien Schwarz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> > > > > To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List < > englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 9:47 am > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2295] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emma, > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > May I suggest that?listening procedures in teaching vowel and > > consonant contrasts may be more important than pushing students into > immediate > > repetition. A basic principle in phonological exercises of any kind is > that > > listening and identification of sounds is of primary importance > > before attempting repetition. If a student can't discriminate > > the differences between two sounds, early attempts to produce them cause > the > > students to hear their own voices and those of other class members > nearby,? > > reinforcing existing problems. Identifying numerically seems to be the > easiest > > and quickest route. If students can't correctly hear the sounds, > particularly > > vowel sounds, they really can't make them. One of the problems with > English is > > that we have more vowel and diphthong sounds than most languages we deal > with > > and they are produced closer together. For example, Spanish has only one > > high-front vowel sound, that of "piso" and it is between the English beat > and > > bit sounds. I also have found that if we teach minimal pair listening in > single > > words first, they should be followed by minimal sentences and then put > into an > > open environment for speaking practice. Here is a sample exercise?for the > > same sounds that you gave, in medial position. Notice that consonants > after the > > vowels are different, because of the fact that in English syllable length > > changes according to the consonants that follow:? beat (short) beef (half > > long) bead (long) and bees (very long). Try it. Most students have the > most > > problems distinguishing the longer syllables. In Spanish, for example, all > > syllables remain short. Initial priority should always be given to the > ears. > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MEDIAL > > VOWEL EXERCISE-1 & 2-Track 6 > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > -/i/-1??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > -/I/-2 > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > heat????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > hit > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > cease??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > sis > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > heed???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > hid > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > keen???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > kin > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > Lee's??????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > Liz > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > bead???????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > bid > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????? > > It was a great heat.?????????????????????????????? > > It was a great hit. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > I saw a > > cease fire????????????????????????????????? > > I saw sis fire. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > We heed > > it.?????????????????????????????????????????? > > We hid it. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > They > > were keen.?????????????????????????????????? > > They were kin. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > It was > > Lee's.???????????????????????????????????????? > > It was Liz. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > See the > > bead.?????????????????????????????????????? > > See the bid. > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > ??????? > > Don't hit it, heat it. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > Will your sis ever cease? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > We heed it and they hid it. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > I'm keen to know her kin. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > Liz is at Lee's house. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ??????????????????????????????????? > > We bid on the bead. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Here are the procedures that I use with my students. Vowel numbers are > > permanent and used to identify sounds all of the time. Beat and bit happen > to > > have the permanent numbers one?and two:?? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Put the pairs of words and > > their identifiers on the marker board. Students are encouraged to copy > these > > words in their notebooks, but are not given copies of the complete > exercises. > > Students are encouraged to tape any exercises in class, rather than > practice > > from the written language. My students receive an audio compact disk of > all > > vowel sounds on their first day. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 2. The instructor should repeat > > these pairs of words with numbers both horizontally and vertically for > > familiarization. Vowel numbers will remain consistent with numbers used in > the > > vowel hatches. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 3. The instructor will go to the > > back of the room and call out words at random for the students to identify > > numerically. This identification exercises can be done as both group and > > individual exercises.? Example: HIT > > 2,? HEAT 1, HEAT 1, CEASE? 1, SIS 2, etc. If numerical errors are > > heard, call out the correct number. When a majority of the students are > able to > > call the numbers correctly, change to double words at random. HEAT HEAT 1, > > 1,? HIT HEAT? 2, 1,? HIT? HIT 2, 2. HIT HEAT, 2, 1. etc. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 4. After most of the students are > > responding accurately to the minimal pairs, switch to the minimal sentence > pairs. These sentence > > exercises should all be performed without written reference. First repeat > > the sentences while the students listen. Next read the sentences at > > unpredictable random and have the students identify target words in a > sentence > > environment numerically. This will be more difficult, but will help the > students > > to hear the sounds in a real structural environment. Continue this > exercise with > > the group and with individuals. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Example:? It was a great heat. (1) It was a great > > hit (2) It was a great hit (2), etc. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > 5. Finally give the students oral > > practice with?sentences in which the target sounds are in free > > environments.? "Don't hit it, heat > > it." Occasional corrections should be done gently, diplomatically and in > good > > humor. If vowels 1, 3, 8 and 10 sound "flat" students can be instructed on > how > > to make their mouth and throat muscles tense. To strengthen the oral and > throat > > muscles takes time. Tongue twisters, "trabalenguas," which combine or > emphasize > > target sounds, are useful and students often enjoy and memorize them. > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Vowel Numbers:? 1 > > beat??? 2? bit??? 3? > > bait??? 4? bet??? 5? bat?? 6 > > bot (fly)??? 7?bought???8 boat?? > > 9?book?? 10 boot?? 11. but > > > > > > > > > > Diphthong > > Numbers??? > > 6+2???lied????6+9?? > > loud????? 7+2??? Lloyd? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers,?? Ted > > > > > > > > > > www.tedklein-ESL.com??? > > > > > > > > > > > > ????????????????????????????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Emma Bourassa" <ebourassa at tru.ca> > > > > > > > > > > To: <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:41 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2294] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue > > 18 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I believe it is Pronunciation Pairs that has illustrations, > > single word and short dialogue practice. For example there might be: > > > > > > > sit? seat > > > > > bit? beat > > > > > > > > > > etc. which is then worked > > into a conversation: > > > > > A: Bea, have a seat. > > > > > B: I can eat but > > can't sit. > > > > > A: Sit in the seat, and eat your meat. > > > > > B: No, I > > need to knit. > > > > > sorta silly but they do work for slow practice of moving > > the mouth and tongue around. > > > > > Pictures with mirrors so students can > > watch themselves works well. > > > > > e > > > > > > > > > > Emma Bourassa > > > > > > > English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a Second > > Language Instructor > > > > > ESL Department > > > > > Thompson Rivers > > University > > > > > 900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010 > > > > > Kamloops, B.C. V2C > > 5N3 > > > > > (250) 371-5895 > > > > > fax 371-5514 > > > > > ebourassa at tru.ca > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > From: Andrea Canter <lucidpandora at gmail.com> > > > > > To: > > <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > > > > Date: 29/04/2008 12:03 pm > > > > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2292] Re: > > EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue 18 > > > > > > > > > > Jenny, > > > > > > > > > > > > Eek! That's the issue I'm coming up against soon. The way I've been > > doing it > > > > > works with the roman alphabet (and easiest with just one native > > language in > > > > > the group). I have this book that has Spanish translations > > of English > > > > > vocabulary words. Then it has the pronunciation of the word > > spelled out in > > > > > Spanish phonetics. I just borrow those phonetics for any > > word I come across: > > > > > (ex. Raise your hand = reiz yor jand). Sometimes > > there isn't a sound in > > > > > Spanish that quite matches the one in English and > > I have to wrk around it > > > > > (ex. the word 'sit'.... there isn't anything in > > Spanish that sounds like the > > > > > 'i' in that word.... I told my class it > > sounds some where between 'eh' and > > > > > 'ee' and they got it). > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing with non-Roman alphabets is unless you speak the language, > > it > > > > > would be quite a task to do it that way. Then if you have people > > with > > > > > differing languages, it would be even worse. If all the people in > > your class > > > > > know the Roman alphabet, then I have a link to a website that > > has books and > > > > > workshops on a unique system to teach pronunciation with. > > I haven't tried > > > > > the method, but it looks really cool. Let me know if you > > want the address. > > > > > Hope this (any of it) helps! > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrea > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions > > to > > > > >>??????? englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > > visit > > > > >>??????? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > > to > > > > >>??????? englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > > > >>??????? englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > > more specific > > > > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage > > digest..." > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Today's > > Topics: > > > > >> > > > > >>?? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2291]? > > computerless ESL instruction > > > > >>????? (Jenny > > Hubler) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Message: 1 > > > > >> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:57:35 -0500 > > > > >> From: > > "Jenny Hubler" <JHubler at womenscenter.info> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2291]? computerless ESL instruction > > > > >> > > To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List'" > > > > >>??????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <001a01c8a937$d1da28d0$d600a8c0 at womenscenter.info> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Andrea: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Could you give more > > details about how you teach pronunciation to speakers > > > > >> of > > > > >> > > other languages? We have many Latinos, also some Koreans and a > > student > > > > >> from > > > > >> > > Sudan. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Jenny > > > > >> > > > > >> The Women's Center of Tarrant County, > > TX > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>? > > _____ > > > > >> > > > > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea > > Canter > > > > >> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:58 PM > > > > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2290] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, > > Issue > > > > >> 16 > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> This is a > > neat concept, but if you're like me and teach adults in venues > > > > >> > > without computers there needs to be something else. Since my class > > is > > > > >> entirely Hispanic, I use Spanish phonics to help. For some sounds > > I have > > > > >> to > > > > >> go into further explanation because there is > > no Spanish equivalent, but > > > > >> for > > > > >> the most part it > > translates. This has worked SO well!! They have near > > > > >> perfect > > pronunciation instantly!! I'm getting ready to start a class with > > > > >> > > people from all over the world now. I have no idea how to address > > the > > > > >> issue > > > > >> with them- any > > suggestions?? > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions > > to > > > > >>?????? englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > > visit > > > > >>?????? http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > > to > > > > >>?????? englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> You can reach the person managing the list > > at > > > > >>?????? englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > > > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is > > more specific > > > > >> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage > > digest..." > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Today's > > Topics: > > > > >> > > > > >>? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line > > dictionary with instant > > > > >>???? sound (Molly > > Elkins) > > > > >>? 2. [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>???? sound (Tom > > Zurinskas) > > > > >>? 3. [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary > > with instant > > > > >>???? sound (Elkins, Molly > > (CR)) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Message: 1 > > > > >> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > > > > >> From: > > "Molly Elkins" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>?????? sound > > > > >> To: > > "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List'" > > > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <004f01c8a62d$8c7cafe0$be070a0a at dpld.org> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain;?????? > > charset="us-ascii" > > > > >> > > > > >> I think it is pretty > > interesting- > > > > >> > > > > >> My only concern is that it took some time > > to load the sound- even on my > > > > >> pretty fast computer, AND it has a > > British accent. Many of my learners > > > > >> have > > > > >> complained > > about media that is British instead of American > > pronunciation. > > > > >> > > > > >> Thank you, > > > > >> > > > > >> Molly > > Elkins > > > > >> Literacy Specialist > > > > >> Douglas County > > Libraries > > > > >> Phillip S. Miller Library > > > > >>? 100 S. Wilcox > > Street > > > > >>? Castle Rock CO 80104 > > > > >>? Map > > > > >> > > Direct Phone: (303)688-7646 > > > > >> Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > > > > >> > > Fax: (303) 688-7655 > > > > >> Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > >> > > Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Daphne > > Greenberg > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > > > > >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with instant > > sound > > > > >> > > > > >> ESL is not my area of expertise, so I don't know > > if this site is good, or > > > > >> if > > > > >> it is a site that everyone > > already knows about. A friend of mine > > > > >> introduced > > > > >> me to a > > site described as? "An English Pronouncing Dictionary with > > Instant > > > > >> Sound" I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a > > great idea > > > > >> for > > > > >> learners struggling with pronunciation of > > specific words. They need to > > > > >> have > > > > >> some proficiency with > > English spelling in order to use the site because > > > > >> they > > > > >> > > need to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > The url is:? http://howjsay.com/ > > > > > > >> > > > > >> I am curious what people on this list think about this > > site. > > > > >> > > > > >> Daphne > > > > >> > > > > >> Daphne > > Greenberg > > > > >> Associate Professor > > > > >> Educational Psych. & > > Special Ed. > > > > >> Georgia State University > > > > >> P.O. Box > > 3979 > > > > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > > > > >> phone: > > 404-413-8337 > > > > >> fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Daphne Greenberg > > > > >> Associate Director > > > > >> Center for the Study > > of Adult Literacy > > > > >> Georgia State University > > > > >> P.O. Box > > 3977 > > > > >> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > > > > >> phone: > > 404-413-8337 > > > > >> fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> Message: 2 > > > > >> > > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:13:32 +0000 > > > > >> From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>?????? sound > > > > >> To: > > The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List > > > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>, cornell > > Kimble <cornell9 at earthlink.net> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <BAY135-W4511FA4584E33E80584DDFD3DD0 at phx.gbl> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> m-w.com is a marvelous > > dictionary that you can click on to hear words in > > > > >> US > > > > >> > > accent.? The only nits I pick are what I call "awe-dropping" where > > the > > > > >> sound > > > > >> "awe" is replaced sometimes by "ah".? > > Click on the word "flaw" to hear it > > > > >> correctly (note, the word "awe" > > is said "ah").? Another nit is that words > > > > >> starting with "ex-" > > are said to be spoken as "ix-" (so example is > > > > >> ixample). > > > > >> > > I don't think that is the norm in USA but perhaps UK. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+ > > > > >> See truespel.com - and > > the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at > > > > >> > > authorhouse.com. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > From: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > > > >> > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 > > > > >> > Subject: > > [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with instant > > > > >> > > sound > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I think it is pretty > > interesting- > > > > >> > > > > > >> > My only concern is that it took > > some time to load the sound- even on my > > > > >> > pretty fast computer, > > AND it has a British accent. Many of my learners > > > > >> have > > > > >> > > > complained about media that is British instead of American > > > > >> > > pronunciation. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thank you, > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Molly Elkins > > > > >> > Literacy > > Specialist > > > > >> > Douglas County Libraries > > > > >> > Phillip S. > > Miller Library > > > > >> > 100 S. Wilcox Street > > > > >> > Castle > > Rock CO 80104 > > > > >> > Map > > > > >> > Direct Phone: > > (303)688-7646 > > > > >> > Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ > > > > >> > Fax: > > (303) 688-7655 > > > > >> > Email: melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > >> > > > Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org > > > > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > > > >> > From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Daphne > > Greenberg > > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM > > > > >> > > > To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > > >> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with > > instant sound > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ESL is not my area of expertise, > > so I don't know if this site is good, > > > > >> or > > > > >> if > > > > >> > > > it is a site that everyone already knows about. A friend of > > mine > > > > >> introduced > > > > >> > me to a site described as "An > > English Pronouncing Dictionary with > > > > >> Instant > > > > >> > Sound" > > I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a great idea > > > > >> > > for > > > > >> > learners struggling with pronunciation of specific words. > > They need to > > > > >> have > > > > >> > some proficiency with English > > spelling in order to use the site because > > > > >> they > > > > >> > need > > to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > The url is: http://howjsay.com/ > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I am curious what people on this list think > > about this site. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Daphne > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > > > >> > Associate > > Professor > > > > >> > Educational Psych. & Special Ed. > > > > >> > > > Georgia State University > > > > >> > P.O. Box 3979 > > > > >> > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 > > > > >> > phone: 404-413-8337 > > > > >> > > > fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> > dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Daphne Greenberg > > > > >> > Associate > > Director > > > > >> > Center for the Study of Adult Literacy > > > > >> > > > Georgia State University > > > > >> > P.O. Box 3977 > > > > >> > > > Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 > > > > >> > phone: 404-413-8337 > > > > >> > > > fax:404-413-8043 > > > > >> > dgreenberg at gsu.edu > > > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> > Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go > > to > > > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > Email delivered to melkins at dclibraries.org > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> > National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> > Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go > > to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > Email delivered to truespel at hotmail.com > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > >> > > Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. > > Get > > > > >> in > > > > >> the game. > > > > >> > > > > >> > http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08 > > > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Message: 3 > > > > >> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:26:53 -0600 > > > > >> From: > > "Elkins, Molly (CR)" <melkins at dclibraries.org> > > > > >> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary with > > instant > > > > >>?????? sound > > > > >> To: > > The Adult English Language Learners Discussion > > List > > > > >>?????? <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > > > >> > > Message-ID: <web-1497724 at bl-208.cluster1.echolabs.net> > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > >> > > > > >> An HTML > > attachment was scrubbed... > > > > >> URL: > > > > >> > > > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a44f/ > > > > > > >> attachment-0001.html< > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080425/1599a44f/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > > > > >> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue > > 16 > > > > >> > > *********************************************** > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > >> An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... > > > > >> URL: > > > > >> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080428/af65b6b0/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> National > > Institute for Literacy > > > > >> Adult English Language Learners mailing > > list > > > > >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > >> > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > >> > > > > >> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue > > 18 > > > > >> > > *********************************************** > > > > >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > National Institute > > for Literacy > > > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > > To > > unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > > > > Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > National Institute for Literacy > > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > National Institute for Literacy > > > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > > > Email delivered to bishopsl at cc.usu.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > National Institute for Literacy > > Adult English Language Learners mailing list > > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage > > Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20080502/3793d041/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:15:22 -0700 > > From: "Michael Tate" <mtate at sbctc.edu> > > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs > > To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" > > ? ? ? ?<englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > > Message-ID: > > ? ? ? ?<0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0317C444 at exch-1.sbctc2.local> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Robin and others: > > > > > > > > Unless one has had to learn to language with sounds that don't exist in > > English, it can be very frustrating to watch students repeatedly fail at > > making sounds that are very easy for fluent English speakers. > > > > > > > > Here's a sound from Thai that is diabolically difficult for most English > > speakers. ?Try saying "nga". ? Here's a tip for saying it correctly: > > say "sing-a" and then ?drop all the other sounds except the /ng/ > > followed by short /a/. ? ?Once you think you have mastered it, try > > saying it in the midst of ?a ?conversation . > > > > > > > > Here's a tip for teaching l/r. ?Ask your ?students to find something > > that's about as thin as a pencil that they are willing to put in their > > mouths. ?Tell the students to put the straw or pencil ?or whatever > > against the back of their front teeth. ?Give them some minimal pairs > > with "l/r" at the beginning, middle and end of words: ?luck ruck, mile > > mire, etc. ?and that have the sounds in close proximity like "burlap" > > "roller" , etc. ?To make the /l/ sound your tongue has to at least touch > > the back of your front teeth. (In some English dialects, the /l/ ?sound > > that isn't in an accented syllable or that is in the final position, > > your tongue may not have to actually touch your teeth, but it get very, > > very close to touching.) > > > > > > > > Having a pencil touching the back of the front teeth makes the student > > hyper-aware if his/her tongue is touching the back of the teeth. > > Modesty may require that some students cover their mouths with their > > hands or ?a sheet of paper while doing this. > > > > > > > > After considerable practice (months), students won't need the pencil. > > They still may not be able to make the /l/ consistently, but they'll > > know when they weren't able to make /l/. > & |