[EnglishLanguage 2335] Re: learning multiple languages

kathleen morgan dezreen at excite.com
Tue May 6 20:09:23 EDT 2008

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I agree with the 'more language, more enjoyment' philosopy as well. When frustrated with my language learning or in watching a student not make much progress, I remind myself that motivation is tied to need of use w hich is tied to being happy because you can communicate. Are my students not learning because the curriculum doesn't connect with their life needs and therefore their happiness? Do you know many people who have become highly fluent in a new language by learning in isolation with limited interaction or natural practice?

Friends of mine who 'know' many languages can easily identify what they need each language for - to talk with their cleaning lady, to buy a newspaper or train ticket, to function at their job, etc. They are not necessarily highly fluent, but their motivation is tied to living in a multi-linguistic community and needing to communicate.

Ultimately, I believe that all language learners need a lot of exposure to native speakers and feel that this is ignored a great deal in language learning research. I think that adults rarely take the time to really just listen to a new language. When I lived in Japan for a year I politely declined Japanese lessons having just been released from 10 years of high school and college level Spanish instruction with zero connection to my needs. After 1-2 months in Japan, I had learned so much on the subconscious level but could not explain that to others (who all thought I was mad). I began to understand bits of conversation and spoke when I thought I could handle it. At around 3 months, I was ready for more structure and had questions! By 9 months, all sorts of words and phrases I had never 'learned' in a structured environment were spilling out of my mouth, much to the surprise of my doubting, dedicated kanji-studying friends.

In the end, I have found that the best lessons in my classroom are when my students are having so much fun interacting that they don't have time to think about what they are saying. Isn't that what fun is all about?

Kathleen
Telluride CO

--- On Tue 05/06, Steve Kaufmann < steve at thelinguist.com > wrote:
From: Steve Kaufmann [mailto: steve at thelinguist.com]
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:51:15 -0700
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2326] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 6

I would add to Martin's comment the following sense that I have from learning many languages. The more languages you learn, the less resistance you have to the idea that different languages express ideas in different ways, following different logic; leaving out articles or pronouns, using double negatives, putting the prepositions behind the noun, and a whole host of other ways. You stop asking why a language says things a certain way. You just accept it and repeat it. 
 At first you just connect a phrase in the new language to a phrase in your own, without worrying about parts of speech. Eventually you need no longer connect it to the original phrase, since you have seen it and heard it often enough in a variety of contexts in the new language. 
 Multiple language learners are more flexible with sounds, no longer expecting that letters have the same value in another language as in our own. That is why I think young children should not be taught the syntax of languages, but should just be exposed to a variety of languages, in the form of stories to listen to and read over and over, with a little help with the vocabulary and background. That will make them more flexible when it comes time to learn a language in depth, hopefully one they are interested in. Even adults can benefit from an approach like this. Less structure, more enjoyment. 
 Steve <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Martin Senger <<a href="mailto:MSenger at gecac.org">MSenger at gecac.org</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">

<div>

Pax all!

 

I would agree with Steve on becoming more
confident in learning multiple languages, but would also add that after the experience
of learning several languages, a person understands better the "systems" (grammar,
pronunciation, whatnot) that languages use to communicate, which I feel generally
are more similar than not. It's not "They do WHAT?!" to "Oh,
that's how THEY do it."

 

<div>

Martin E. Senger

Adult ESL Teacher

GECAC / The R. Benjamin
Wiley Learning Center

Erie, Pa

</div>

 

-----Original Message----- 
From:
<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a>] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann 

Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:10
AM 
To: The Adult English Language
Learners Discussion List 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2323]
Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 6

 

Just a short word on adults learning to pronounce
foreign languages and on acquiring a third or fourth language. 
My wife and I like languages, and have had no trouble learning to speak and
pronounce the sounds of new languages. My wife is a native speaker of Cantonese
but speaks Japanese, Mandarin and Spanish and learned to speak and
pronounce French very well, after the age of 40. I speak 12 languages
now, but have learned Cantonese, Korean, Russian and Portuguese just in the
last 7 years (since the age of 55). 
I find learning a third and fourth language different from learning a second
language only in the sense that as a learner you are more confident that you
will succeed, and that you have a better idea of how to go about it. A major
obstacle to learning languages is the lack of confidence in, and even a lack of
commitment to, the idea that you can transform yourself into someone acting in
another culture. Once you have done it once, things become easier. 
 
Steve Kaufmann

<div>

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:38 PM, <<a href="mailto:robinschwarz1 at aol.com" target="_blank">robinschwarz1 at aol.com</a>> wrote:

<div>

Andrea--there is a whole field
devoted to multiple language acquisition. Two researchers who have
written or edited books about this are De Angelis and Selinker--they published
one in 2001 and another in 2007. 
 
Robin Schwarz

</div>

<div>

 

</div>

<div>

 

</div>

-----Original Message----- 
From: Andrea Canter <<a href="mailto:lucidpandora at gmail.com" target="_blank">lucidpandora at gmail.com</a>> 
To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 
Sent: Sat, 3 May 2008 9:11 pm 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2315] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32, Issue 6

<div>

I am curious how 3rd and 4th language learning differs
from 2nd language learning. In my own experience, once I started learning
beyond the second language I found myself getting all my languages confused. I
would think and say words in French when I was trying to speak German and vice
versa. This is good in respect to exercising the ability to think in another
language, but obviously very cumbersome. Is this normally what happens? Is
there ANY research on it at all? 
 
Andrea Canter 
 


<div>

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:18 PM, <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov</a>>
wrote:

Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to 
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..." 
 
 
Today's Topics: 
 
1. [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs (<a href="mailto:robinschwarz1 at aol.com" target="_blank">robinschwarz1 at aol.com</a>) 
2. [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs (Michael Tate) 
 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Message: 1 
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 17:10:27 -0400 
From: <a href="mailto:robinschwarz1 at aol.com" target="_blank">robinschwarz1 at aol.com</a> 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2304] Re: Minimal pairs 
To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8CA7AB013B6B464-9C0-228A at webmail-dd18.sysops.aol.com" target="_blank">8CA7AB013B6B464-9C0-228A at webmail-dd18.sysops.aol.com</a>> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
 
See the work of Virginia Kuhl at the U of Washington, who is a
neuroscientist, as well as the work of Norman Segalowitz, and his colleagues
Gatbonton and Trofimovich, who do studies on adult language acquisition for
starters. This latter group, especially Gatbonton, have theories about the
progression of acquisition of phonological information (i.e. sounds) in
language acquisition. Gatbonton's framework shows that this acquisition is
gradual and predictable and subject to exposure to native language speakers. ?
These researchers do not comment on the brain's ability to process language
sounds. ? 
 
I find one has to dig deep in the literature of neuroscience to find the
information on how the brain processes language sounds as it matures, but Kuhl
is recognized as one of the lead researchers on this process.? It has been very
frustrating to me that ESL as a field tends to ignore neuroscience and its
information on how the brain learns language(s) as well as the information
coming out of international reading research, which now also includes studies
on the brain and how languages are differentiated in it.? In addition, I feel
that the whole field of multiple language acquisition is equally ignored.?
Acquiring a third or fourth language is a very different process from acquiring
a second language.? As near as I can tell, a very large percentage, maybe the
majority, of our adult ESOL learners already speak two or more languages when
they begin to learn English, so I feel we should be looking at the field of
multiple language acquisition much more than at second language a 
cquisition .?? 
 
Robin Lovrien Schwarz 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Sally Bishop <<a href="mailto:s.bishop at aggiemail.usu.edu" target="_blank">s.bishop at aggiemail.usu.edu</a>> 
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 3:46 pm 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2301] Re: Minimal pairs 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Do you have research you can site on this comment: " 
Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study 
are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate 
pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language 
learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not 
translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately 
anymore.?? Thus accents." 
 
S Bishop 
 
 
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 1:46 PM, <<a href="mailto:robinschwarz1 at aol.com" target="_blank">robinschwarz1 at aol.com</a>> wrote: 
 
 
 
 
An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in
English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at
Amazon.com./textbooks.? This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all contrasts in
English and each page includes a) a list of languages for which that particular
contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in both positions (actually
side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences with context d) a set of
sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a bug/bag on the table.)?? and e)
a complete list of all minimal pairs for that contrast.? It is an invaluable
teaching resource.? Pronunciation Pairs is a good place to start if you are
unfamiliar with the practice of minimal pairs, but it does not go far enough
for review and mastery.? Learners typically memorize the contrasting words in
the pairsin that book in lightning time, but do not generalize that skill to o 
ther pairs, in my experience. 
 
 
 
I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and manipulation
(auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction is better
pronunciation.? I? know there has been discussion here previously about the
effectiveness of MPs out of context.? I do both-- a lot of non-contextualized
practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, and have always seen a clear
improvement--and learners report clear improvement.? Teachers I coach who use
this say their learners BEG for this practice. When teachers use this, or I use
this approach, I emphasize that it is NOT a vocabulary exercise, but rather an
auditory discrimination practice and practice in associating specific sounds
with specific spellings.? Students often resist not knowing the meanings, but
the minute you include meanings, the listening part goes away.? Different brain
pathways are in play.?? 
 
 
 
 
Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study are
clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate pronunciation of
foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language learner does not process
unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not translate them into speech gestures
( i.e. pronunciation) accurately anymore.?? Thus accents.? 
 
 
 
 
An interesting study on adult Japanese showed that adults COULD learn to say L
vs r? more accurately in a study environment, but could not generalize the new
skill to informal conversation.? Nonetheless, pronunciation experts ARE able to
achieve improvement, if not perfection.? There are LOTS of pronunciation aids
out there- videos, software, etc--Rosetta Stone has a feature where learners
can see a visigraph of what they say compared to a native model.? Learners LOVE
this and it apparently helps a LOT.?? I heard a terrific presenter at the ACE
of Florida conference last fall who does adult ESL pronunciation improvement.
She uses LOTS of minimal pair practice and she emphasized the fact that to
achieve improvement, you must do 100% correction.? That is, no error goes
unnoticed and uncorrected. This is essentially what the study on Japanese did
as well.? Obviously, you must have your learners' buy-in to do that or they
will cry in fr 
ustr 
ation.?? She does it as part of a pronunciation improvement course where
learners are there precisely to have their speech corrected. ? 
 
 
 
Mirrors are GREAT, as are "whisperphones"--those devices which look
like telephone receivers into which the learner speaks and can hear him or
herself saying sounds. Adult learners typically cannot hear that they are not
producing the sounds you want them to.?? 
 
 
 
 
Don't forget as well, that speech pathologists can help a LOT in showing
learners how to place tongue and lips for more accurate pronunciation (as long
as they do not characterize speech differences that are the result of first
language differences as "speech impediments" or speech
problems--these are normal speech differences.). ? I have urged for over 20
years that adult ESL should be working more closely with speech pathologists?
to help learners hear and pronounce better and to help determine if there
really ARE pronunciation problems even in first language.?? 
 
 
 
 
Robin Lovrien Schwarz 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
 
From: Ted Klein <<a href="mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com" target="_blank">taklein at austin.rr.com</a>> 
 
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
 
Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 9:47 am 
 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2295] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue 18 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Emma, 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
May I suggest that?listening procedures in teaching vowel and 
consonant contrasts may be more important than pushing students into immediate 
repetition. A basic principle in phonological exercises of any kind is that 
listening and identification of sounds is of primary importance 
before attempting repetition. If a student can't discriminate 
the differences between two sounds, early attempts to produce them cause the 
students to hear their own voices and those of other class members nearby,? 
reinforcing existing problems. Identifying numerically seems to be the easiest 
and quickest route. If students can't correctly hear the sounds, particularly 
vowel sounds, they really can't make them. One of the problems with English is 
that we have more vowel and diphthong sounds than most languages we deal with 
and they are produced closer together. For example, Spanish has only one 
high-front vowel sound, that of "piso" and it is between the English
beat and 
bit sounds. I also have found that if we teach minimal pair listening in single 
words first, they should be followed by minimal sentences and then put into an 
open environment for speaking practice. Here is a sample exercise?for the 
same sounds that you gave, in medial position. Notice that consonants after the 
vowels are different, because of the fact that in English syllable length 
changes according to the consonants that follow:? beat (short) beef (half 
long) bead (long) and bees (very long). Try it. Most students have the most 
problems distinguishing the longer syllables. In Spanish, for example, all 
syllables remain short. Initial priority should always be given to the ears. 
 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
MEDIAL 
VOWEL EXERCISE-1 & 2-Track 6 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
-/i/-1??????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
-/I/-2 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
heat????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
hit 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
cease??????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
sis 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
heed???????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
hid 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
keen???????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
kin 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
Lee's??????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
Liz 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????? 
 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
bead???????????????????????????????????????????????????? 
bid 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????? 
It was a great heat.?????????????????????????????? 
It was a great hit. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
I saw a 
cease fire????????????????????????????????? 
I saw sis fire. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
We heed 
it.?????????????????????????????????????????? 
We hid it. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
They 
were keen.?????????????????????????????????? 
They were kin. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
It was 
Lee's.???????????????????????????????????????? 
It was Liz. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
See the 
bead.?????????????????????????????????????? 
See the bid. 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????? 
 
 
 
 
 
??????? 
Don't hit it, heat it. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
Will your sis ever cease? 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
We heed it and they hid it. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
I'm keen to know her kin. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
Liz is at Lee's house. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
??????????????????????????????????? 
We bid on the bead. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
Here are the procedures that I use with my students. Vowel numbers are 
permanent and used to identify sounds all of the time. Beat and bit happen to 
have the permanent numbers one?and two:?? 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
1. Put the pairs of words and 
their identifiers on the marker board. Students are encouraged to copy these 
words in their notebooks, but are not given copies of the complete exercises. 
Students are encouraged to tape any exercises in class, rather than practice 
from the written language. My students receive an audio compact disk of all 
vowel sounds on their first day. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
2. The instructor should repeat 
these pairs of words with numbers both horizontally and vertically for 
familiarization. Vowel numbers will remain consistent with numbers used in the 
vowel hatches. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
3. The instructor will go to the 
back of the room and call out words at random for the students to identify 
numerically. This identification exercises can be done as both group and 
individual exercises.? Example: HIT 
2,? HEAT 1, HEAT 1, CEASE? 1, SIS 2, etc. If numerical errors are 
heard, call out the correct number. When a majority of the students are able to 
call the numbers correctly, change to double words at random. HEAT HEAT 1, 
1,? HIT HEAT? 2, 1,? HIT? HIT 2, 2. HIT HEAT, 2, 1. etc. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
4. After most of the students are 
responding accurately to the minimal pairs, switch to the minimal sentence
pairs. These sentence 
exercises should all be performed without written reference. First repeat 
the sentences while the students listen. Next read the sentences at 
unpredictable random and have the students identify target words in a sentence 
environment numerically. This will be more difficult, but will help the
students 
to hear the sounds in a real structural environment. Continue this exercise
with 
the group and with individuals. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
Example:? It was a great heat. (1) It was a great 
hit (2) It was a great hit (2), etc. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
5. Finally give the students oral 
practice with?sentences in which the target sounds are in free 
environments.? "Don't hit it, heat 
it." Occasional corrections should be done gently, diplomatically and in
good 
humor. If vowels 1, 3, 8 and 10 sound "flat" students can be
instructed on how 
to make their mouth and throat muscles tense. To strengthen the oral and throat 
muscles takes time. Tongue twisters, "trabalenguas," which combine or
emphasize 
target sounds, are useful and students often enjoy and memorize them. 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
Vowel Numbers:? 1 
beat??? 2? bit??? 3? 
bait??? 4? bet??? 5? bat?? 6 
bot (fly)??? 7?bought???8 boat?? 
9?book?? 10 boot?? 11. but 
 
 
 
 
Diphthong 
Numbers??? 
6+2???lied????6+9?? 
loud????? 7+2??? Lloyd? 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
Cheers,?? Ted 
 
 
 
 
<a href="http://www.tedklein-ESL.com?" target="_blank">www.tedklein-ESL.com?</a>?? 
 
 
 
 
 
????????????????????????????????????? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
? 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
 
 
From: "Emma Bourassa" <<a href="mailto:ebourassa at tru.ca" target="_blank">ebourassa at tru.ca</a>> 
 
 
 
 
To: <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:41 PM 
 
 
 
 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2294] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue 
18 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

>I believe it is Pronunciation Pairs that has illustrations, 

single word and short dialogue practice. For example there might be: 
 

> 

sit? seat 
 

> bit? beat 

 

> 

 

> etc. which is then worked 

into a conversation: 
 

> A: Bea, have a seat. 

 

> B: I can eat but 

can't sit. 
 

> A: Sit in the seat, and eat your meat. 

 

> B: No, I 

need to knit. 
 

> sorta silly but they do work for slow practice of moving 

the mouth and tongue around. 
 

> Pictures with mirrors so students can 

watch themselves works well. 
 

> e 

 

> 

 

> Emma Bourassa 

 

> 

English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a Second 
Language Instructor 
 

> ESL Department 

 

> Thompson Rivers 

University 
 

> 900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010 

 

> Kamloops, B.C. V2C 

5N3 
 

> (250) 371-5895 

 

> fax 371-5514 

 

> <a href="mailto:ebourassa at tru.ca" target="_blank">ebourassa at tru.ca</a> 

 

> 

 

>>>> 

 
 

> From: Andrea Canter <<a href="mailto:lucidpandora at gmail.com" target="_blank">lucidpandora at gmail.com</a>> 

 

> To: 

<<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
 

> 

Date: 29/04/2008 12:03 pm 
 

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2292] Re: 

EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue 18 
 

> 

 

> Jenny, 

 

> 

 
 

> Eek! That's the issue I'm coming up against soon. The way I've been 

doing it 
 

> works with the roman alphabet (and easiest with just one native 

language in 
 

> the group). I have this book that has Spanish translations 

of English 
 

> vocabulary words. Then it has the pronunciation of the word 

spelled out in 
 

> Spanish phonetics. I just borrow those phonetics for any 

word I come across: 
 

> (ex. Raise your hand = reiz yor jand). Sometimes 

there isn't a sound in 
 

> Spanish that quite matches the one in English and 

I have to wrk around it 
 

> (ex. the word 'sit'.... there isn't anything in 

Spanish that sounds like the 
 

> 'i' in that word.... I told my class it 

sounds some where between 'eh' and 
 

> 'ee' and they got it). 

 

> 

 
 

> The thing with non-Roman alphabets is unless you speak the language, 

it 
 

> would be quite a task to do it that way. Then if you have people 

with 
 

> differing languages, it would be even worse. If all the people in 

your class 
 

> know the Roman alphabet, then I have a link to a website that 

has books and 
 

> workshops on a unique system to teach pronunciation with. 

I haven't tried 
 

> the method, but it looks really cool. Let me know if you 

want the address. 
 

> Hope this (any of it) helps! 

 

> 

 

> 

Andrea 
 

> 

 

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov</a>> 

wrote: 
 

> 

 

>> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions 

to 
 

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>> 

 

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, 

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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' 

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>> 

 

>> You can reach the person managing the list 

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>> 

 

>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is 

more specific 
 

>> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage 

digest..." 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> Today's 

Topics: 
 

>> 

 

>>?? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2291]? 

computerless ESL instruction 
 

>>????? (Jenny 

Hubler) 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> 

 

>> 

Message: 1 
 

>> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:57:35 -0500 

 

>> From: 

"Jenny Hubler" <<a href="mailto:JHubler at womenscenter.info" target="_blank">JHubler at womenscenter.info</a>> 
 

>> 

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2291]? computerless ESL instruction 
 

>> 

To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion 
List'" 
 

>>??????? <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 

 

>> 

Message-ID: <001a01c8a937$d1da28d0$<a href="mailto:d600a8c0 at womenscenter.info" target="_blank">d600a8c0 at womenscenter.info</a>> 
 

>> 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 

>> 

 

>> 

Andrea: 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> Could you give more 

details about how you teach pronunciation to speakers 
 

>> of 

 

>> 

other languages? We have many Latinos, also some Koreans and a 
student 
 

>> from 

 

>> 

Sudan. 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

Jenny 
 

>> 

 

>> The Women's Center of Tarrant County, 

TX 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>>? 

_____ 
 

>> 

 

>> From: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a> 

 
 

>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a>] On Behalf Of Andrea 

Canter 
 

>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:58 PM 

 

>> To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2290] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, 
Issue 
 

>> 16 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> This is a 

neat concept, but if you're like me and teach adults in venues 
 

>> 

without computers there needs to be something else. Since my class 
is 
 

>> entirely Hispanic, I use Spanish phonics to help. For some sounds 

I have 
 

>> to 

 

>> go into further explanation because there is 

no Spanish equivalent, but 
 

>> for 

 

>> the most part it 

translates. This has worked SO well!! They have near 
 

>> perfect 

pronunciation instantly!! I'm getting ready to start a class with 
 

>> 

people from all over the world now. I have no idea how to address 
the 
 

>> issue 

 

>> with them- any 

suggestions?? 
 

>> 

 

>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov</a>> 

 

>> 

wrote: 
 

>> 

 

>> Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions 

to 
 

>>?????? <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 
 

>> 

 

>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, 

visit 
 

>>?????? <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a> 

 
 

>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' 

to 
 

>>?????? <a href="mailto:englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov</a> 

 
 

>> 

 

>> You can reach the person managing the list 

at 
 

>>?????? <a href="mailto:englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov</a> 

 
 

>> 

 

>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is 

more specific 
 

>> than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage 

digest..." 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> Today's 

Topics: 
 

>> 

 

>>? 1. [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line 

dictionary with instant 
 

>>???? sound (Molly 

Elkins) 
 

>>? 2. [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with 

instant 
 

>>???? sound (Tom 

Zurinskas) 
 

>>? 3. [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary 

with instant 
 

>>???? sound (Elkins, Molly 

(CR)) 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> 

 

>> 

Message: 1 
 

>> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 

 

>> From: 

"Molly Elkins" <<a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a>> 
 

>> 

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with 
instant 
 

>>?????? sound 

 

>> To: 

"'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion 
List'" 
 

>>?????? <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 

 

>> 

Message-ID: <004f01c8a62d$8c7cafe0$<a href="mailto:be070a0a at dpld.org" target="_blank">be070a0a at dpld.org</a>> 
 

>> 

Content-Type: text/plain;?????? 
charset="us-ascii" 
 

>> 

 

>> I think it is pretty 

interesting- 
 

>> 

 

>> My only concern is that it took some time 

to load the sound- even on my 
 

>> pretty fast computer, AND it has a 

British accent. Many of my learners 
 

>> have 

 

>> complained 

about media that is British instead of American 
pronunciation. 
 

>> 

 

>> Thank you, 

 

>> 

 

>> Molly 

Elkins 
 

>> Literacy Specialist 

 

>> Douglas County 

Libraries 
 

>> Phillip S. Miller Library 

 

>>? 100 S. Wilcox 

Street 
 

>>? Castle Rock CO 80104 

 

>>? Map 

 

>> 

Direct Phone: (303)688-7646 
 

>> Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ 

 

>> 

Fax: (303) 688-7655 
 

>> Email: <a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a> 

 

>> 

Web: <a href="http://www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org" target="_blank">www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org</a> 
 
 

>> -----Original Message----- 

 

>> From: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a> 

 
 

>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a>] On Behalf Of Daphne 

Greenberg 
 

>> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM 

 

>> To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with instant 
sound 
 

>> 

 

>> ESL is not my area of expertise, so I don't know 

if this site is good, or 
 

>> if 

 

>> it is a site that everyone 

already knows about. A friend of mine 
 

>> introduced 

 

>> me to a 

site described as? "An English Pronouncing Dictionary with 
Instant 
 

>> Sound" I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a 

great idea 
 

>> for 

 

>> learners struggling with pronunciation of 

specific words. They need to 
 

>> have 

 

>> some proficiency with 

English spelling in order to use the site because 
 

>> they 

 

>> 

need to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. 
 

>> 

 

>> 

The url is:? <a href="http://howjsay.com/" target="_blank">http://howjsay.com/</a> 
 
 

>> 

 

>> I am curious what people on this list think about this 

site. 
 

>> 

 

>> Daphne 

 

>> 

 

>> Daphne 

Greenberg 
 

>> Associate Professor 

 

>> Educational Psych. & 

Special Ed. 
 

>> Georgia State University 

 

>> P.O. Box 

3979 
 

>> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 

 

>> phone: 

404-413-8337 
 

>> fax:404-413-8043 

 

>> <a href="mailto:dgreenberg at gsu.edu" target="_blank">dgreenberg at gsu.edu</a> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

Daphne Greenberg 
 

>> Associate Director 

 

>> Center for the Study 

of Adult Literacy 
 

>> Georgia State University 

 

>> P.O. Box 

3977 
 

>> Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 

 

>> phone: 

404-413-8337 
 

>> fax:404-413-8043 

 

>> <a href="mailto:dgreenberg at gsu.edu" target="_blank">dgreenberg at gsu.edu</a> 

 

>> 

---------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> National 

Institute for Literacy 
 

>> Adult English Language Learners mailing 

list 
 

>> <a href="mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 

>> <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a> 

 
 

>> Email delivered to <a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a> 

 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

------------------------------ 
 

>> 

 

>> Message: 2 

 

>> 

Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:13:32 +0000 
 

>> From: Tom Zurinskas <<a href="mailto:truespel at hotmail.com" target="_blank">truespel at hotmail.com</a>> 

 

>> 

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2287] Re: on-line dictionary with 
instant 
 

>>?????? sound 

 

>> To: 

The Adult English Language Learners Discussion 
List 
 

>>?????? <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>>,

cornell 
Kimble <<a href="mailto:cornell9 at earthlink.net" target="_blank">cornell9 at earthlink.net</a>> 
 

>> 

Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:BAY135-W4511FA4584E33E80584DDFD3DD0 at phx.gbl" target="_blank">BAY135-W4511FA4584E33E80584DDFD3DD0 at phx.gbl</a>> 
 

>> 

Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="iso-8859-1" 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> <a href="http://m-w.com" target="_blank">m-w.com</a> is a marvelous 

dictionary that you can click on to hear words in 
 

>> US 

 

>> 

accent.? The only nits I pick are what I call "awe-dropping" where 
the 
 

>> sound 

 

>> "awe" is replaced sometimes by "ah".? 

Click on the word "flaw" to hear it 
 

>> correctly (note, the word "awe" 

is said "ah").? Another nit is that words 
 

>> starting with "ex-" 

are said to be spoken as "ix-" (so example is 
 

>> ixample). 

 

>> 

I don't think that is the norm in USA but perhaps UK. 
 

>> 

 

>> 

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+ 
 

>> See <a href="http://truespel.com" target="_blank">truespel.com</a> -

and 
the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at 
 

>> 

<a href="http://authorhouse.com" target="_blank">authorhouse.com</a>. 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

> From: <a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a> 

 
 

>> > To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:06:33 -0600 

 

>> > Subject: 

[EnglishLanguage 2286] Re: on-line dictionary with instant 
 

>> 

sound 
 

>> > 

 

>> > I think it is pretty 

interesting- 
 

>> > 

 

>> > My only concern is that it took 

some time to load the sound- even on my 
 

>> > pretty fast computer, 

AND it has a British accent. Many of my learners 
 

>> have 

 

>> 

> complained about media that is British instead of American 

 

>> 

pronunciation. 
 

>> > 

 

>> > Thank you, 

 

>> 

> 

 

>> > Molly Elkins 

 

>> > Literacy 

Specialist 
 

>> > Douglas County Libraries 

 

>> > Phillip S. 

Miller Library 
 

>> > 100 S. Wilcox Street 

 

>> > Castle 

Rock CO 80104 
 

>> > Map 

 

>> > Direct Phone: 

(303)688-7646 
 

>> > Alt Phone: (303) 791-READ 

 

>> > Fax: 

(303) 688-7655 
 

>> > Email: <a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a> 

 

>> 

> Web: <a href="http://www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org" target="_blank">www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org</a> 

 
 

>> > -----Original Message----- 

 

>> > From: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a> 

 
 

>> > [mailto:<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a>] On Behalf Of Daphne 

Greenberg 
 

>> > Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:00 PM 

 

>> > 

To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 
 
 

>> > Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2254] on-line dictionary with 

instant sound 
 

>> > 

 

>> > ESL is not my area of expertise, 

so I don't know if this site is good, 
 

>> or 

 

>> if 

 

>> 

> it is a site that everyone already knows about. A friend of 

mine 
 

>> introduced 

 

>> > me to a site described as "An 

English Pronouncing Dictionary with 
 

>> Instant 

 

>> > Sound" 

I tried it out with a few words, and it seemed like a great idea 
 

>> 

for 
 

>> > learners struggling with pronunciation of specific words. 

They need to 
 

>> have 

 

>> > some proficiency with English 

spelling in order to use the site because 
 

>> they 

 

>> > need 

to write the word in order to hear it pronounced. 
 

>> > 

 

>> 

> The url is: <a href="http://howjsay.com/" target="_blank">http://howjsay.com/</a> 

 
 

>> > 

 

>> > I am curious what people on this list think 

about this site. 
 

>> > 

 

>> > Daphne 

 

>> 

> 

 

>> > Daphne Greenberg 

 

>> > Associate 

Professor 
 

>> > Educational Psych. & Special Ed. 

 

>> > 

Georgia State University 
 

>> > P.O. Box 3979 

 

>> > 

Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3979 
 

>> > phone: 404-413-8337 

 

>> 

> fax:404-413-8043 

 

>> > <a href="mailto:dgreenberg at gsu.edu" target="_blank">dgreenberg at gsu.edu</a> 

 

>> 

> 

 

>> > Daphne Greenberg 

 

>> > Associate 

Director 
 

>> > Center for the Study of Adult Literacy 

 

>> 

> Georgia State University 

 

>> > P.O. Box 3977 

 

>> > 

Atlanta, Georgia 30302-3977 
 

>> > phone: 404-413-8337 

 

>> 

> fax:404-413-8043 

 

>> > <a href="mailto:dgreenberg at gsu.edu" target="_blank">dgreenberg at gsu.edu</a> 

 

>> > 

---------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> > National 

Institute for Literacy 
 

>> > Adult English Language Learners mailing 

list 
 

>> > <a href="mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go 

to 
 

>> > <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a> 

 
 

>> > Email delivered to <a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a> 

 

>> 

> 

 

>> > 

---------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> > National 

Institute for Literacy 
 

>> > Adult English Language Learners mailing 

list 
 

>> > <a href="mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go 

to 
 

>> <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a> 

 
 

>> > Email delivered to <a href="mailto:truespel at hotmail.com" target="_blank">truespel at hotmail.com</a> 

 
 

>> 

 

>> 

_________________________________________________________________ 
 

>> 

Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. 
Get 
 

>> in 

 

>> the game. 

 

>> 

 

>> <a href="http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08" target="_blank">http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08</a> 

 
 

>> 

 

>> ------------------------------ 

 

>> 

 

>> 

Message: 3 
 

>> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:26:53 -0600 

 

>> From: 

"Elkins, Molly (CR)" <<a href="mailto:melkins at dclibraries.org" target="_blank">melkins at dclibraries.org</a>> 
 

>> 

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2288] Re: on-line dictionary with 
instant 
 

>>?????? sound 

 

>> To: 

The Adult English Language Learners Discussion 
List 
 

>>?????? <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 

 

>> 

Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:web-1497724 at bl-208.cluster1.echolabs.net" target="_blank">web-1497724 at bl-208.cluster1.echolabs.net</a>> 
 

>> 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 

>> 

 

>> An HTML 

attachment was scrubbed... 
 

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>> 

 

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>> 

 

>> 

------------------------------ 
 

>> 

 

>> 

---------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> National 

Institute for Literacy 
 

>> Adult English Language Learners mailing 

list 
 

>> <a href="mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

>> 

To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 

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>> 

 

>> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue 

16 
 

>> 

*********************************************** 
 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

 

>> 

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>> 

 

>> ------------------------------ 

 

>> 

 

>> 

---------------------------------------------------- 
 

>> National 

Institute for Literacy 
 

>> Adult English Language Learners mailing 

list 
 

>> <a href="mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

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>> End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31, Issue 

18 
 

>> 

*********************************************** 
 

>> 

 

> 

---------------------------------------------------- 
 

> National Institute 

for Literacy 
 

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> <a href="mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov</a> 

 

> To 

unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage" target="_blank">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a> 
 

> 

Email delivered to <a href="mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com" target="_blank">taklein at austin.rr.com</a> 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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National Institute for Literacy 
 
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 
 
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Email delivered to <a href="mailto:robinschwarz1 at aol.com" target="_blank">robinschwarz1 at aol.com</a> 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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------------------------------ 
 
Message: 2 
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:15:22 -0700 
From: "Michael Tate" <<a href="mailto:mtate at sbctc.edu" target="_blank">mtate at sbctc.edu</a>> 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2305] Re: Minimal pairs 
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" 
<<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
Message-ID: 
<<a href="mailto:0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0317C444 at exch-1.sbctc2.local" target="_blank">0CA6C79FCB4AC642A77B76C17A4316EE0317C444 at exch-1.sbctc2.local</a>> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
Robin and others: 
 
 
 
Unless one has had to learn to language with sounds that don't exist in 
English, it can be very frustrating to watch students repeatedly fail at 
making sounds that are very easy for fluent English speakers. 
 
 
 
Here's a sound from Thai that is diabolically difficult for most English 
speakers. Try saying "nga". Here's a tip for saying it
correctly: 
say "sing-a" and then drop all the other sounds except the /ng/ 
followed by short /a/. Once you think you have mastered it, try 
saying it in the midst of a conversation . 
 
 
 
Here's a tip for teaching l/r. Ask your students to find something 
that's about as thin as a pencil that they are willing to put in their 
mouths. Tell the students to put the straw or pencil or whatever 
against the back of their front teeth. Give them some minimal pairs 
with "l/r" at the beginning, middle and end of words: luck
ruck, mile 
mire, etc. and that have the sounds in close proximity like
"burlap" 
"roller" , etc. To make the /l/ sound your tongue has to at
least touch 
the back of your front teeth. (In some English dialects, the /l/ sound 
that isn't in an accented syllable or that is in the final position, 
your tongue may not have to actually touch your teeth, but it get very, 
very close to touching.) 
 
 
 
Having a pencil touching the back of the front teeth makes the student 
hyper-aware if his/her tongue is touching the back of the teeth. 
Modesty may require that some students cover their mouths with their 
hands or a sheet of paper while doing this. 
 
 
 
After considerable practice (months), students won't need the pencil. 
They still may not be able to make the /l/ consistently, but they'll 
know when they weren't able to make /l/. 
 
 
 
From: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a> 
[mailto:<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov</a>]
On Behalf Of 
<a href="mailto:robinschwarz1 at aol.com" target="_blank">robinschwarz1 at aol.com</a> 
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:46 PM 
To: <a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a> 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2298] Re: Minimal pairs 
 
 
 
An even better book for minimal pairs is Pronunciation Contrasts in 
English ( Nilsen & Nilsen) available in both old and new editions at 
Amazon.com./textbooks. This book has ONLY minimal pairs of all 
contrasts in English and each page includes a) a list of languages for 
which that particular contrast is a problem, b) drawings of the mouth in 
both positions (actually side views) c) a set of minimal pair sentences 
with context d) a set of sentences with no context help (e.g. There is a 
bug/bag on the table.) and e) a complete list of all minimal pairs for 
that contrast. It is an invaluable teaching resource. Pronunciation 
Pairs is a good place to start if you are unfamiliar with the practice 
of minimal pairs, but it does not go far enough for review and mastery. 
Learners typically memorize the contrasting words in the pairsin that 
book in lightning time, but do not generalize that skill to o ther 
pairs, in my experience. 
 
I teach minimal pairs for the purpose of phoneme isolation and 
manipulation (auditory perception) -- a by-product of that instruction 
is better pronunciation. I know there has been discussion here 
previously about the effectiveness of MPs out of context. I do both-- a 
lot of non-contextualized practice and a LOT of contextualized practice, 
and have always seen a clear improvement--and learners report clear 
improvement. Teachers I coach who use this say their learners BEG for 
this practice. When teachers use this, or I use this approach, I 
emphasize that it is NOT a vocabulary exercise, but rather an auditory 
discrimination practice and practice in associating specific sounds with 
specific spellings. Students often resist not knowing the meanings, but 
the minute you include meanings, the listening part goes away. 
Different brain pathways are in play. 
 
Bear in mind, however, that neuroscience and many decades of SLA study 
are clear on the fact that adults will not acquire very accurate 
pronunciation of foreign sounds because the brain of an adult language 
learner does not process unfamiliar sounds effectively and does not 
translate them into speech gestures ( i.e. pronunciation) accurately 
anymore. Thus accents. 
 
An interesting study on adult Japanese showed that adults COULD learn to 
say L vs r more accurately in a study environment, but could not 
generalize the new skill to informal conversation. Nonetheless, 
pronunciation experts ARE able to achieve improvement, if not 
perfection. There are LOTS of pronunciation aids out there- videos, 
software, etc--Rosetta Stone has a feature where learners can see a 
visigraph of what they say compared to a native model. Learners LOVE 
this and it apparently helps a LOT. I heard a terrific presenter at 
the ACE of Florida conference last fall who does adult ESL pronunciation 
improvement. She uses LOTS of minimal pair practice and she emphasized 
the fact that to achieve improvement, you must do 100% correction. That 
is, no error goes unnoticed and uncorrected. This is essentially what 
the study on Japanese did as well. Obviously, you must have your 
learners' buy-in to do that or they will cry in frustr ation. She does 
it as part of a pronunciation improvement course where learners are 
there precisely to have their speech corrected. 
 
Mirrors are GREAT, as are "whisperphones"--those devices which look
like 
telephone receivers into which the learner speaks and can hear him or 
herself saying sounds. Adult learners typically cannot hear that they 
are not producing the sounds you want them to. 
 
Don't forget as well, that speech pathologists can help a LOT in showing 
learners how to place tongue and lips for more accurate pronunciation 
(as long as they do not characterize speech differences that are the 
result of first language differences as "speech impediments" or
speech 
problems--these are normal speech differences.). I have urged for over 
20 years that adult ESL should be working more closely with speech 
pathologists to help learners hear and pronounce better and to help 
determine if there really ARE pronunciation problems even in first 
language. 
 
Robin Lovrien Schwarz 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Ted Klein <<a href="mailto:taklein at austin.rr.com" target="_blank">taklein at austin.rr.com</a>> 
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List 
<<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 9:47 am 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2295] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue 
18 
 
Emma, 
 
 
 
May I suggest that listening procedures in teaching vowel and consonant 
contrasts may be more important than pushing students into immediate 
repetition. A basic principle in phonological exercises of any kind is 
that listening and identification of sounds is of primary importance 
before attempting repetition. If a student can't discriminate the 
differences between two sounds, early attempts to produce them cause the 
students to hear their own voices and those of other class members 
nearby, reinforcing existing problems. Identifying numerically seems to 
be the easiest and quickest route. If students can't correctly hear the 
sounds, particularly vowel sounds, they really can't make them. One of 
the problems with English is that we have more vowel and diphthong 
sounds than most languages we deal with and they are produced closer 
together. For example, Spanish has only one high-front vowel sound, that 
of "piso" and it is between the English beat and bit sounds. I also
have 
found that if we teach minimal pair listening in single words first, 
they should be followed by minimal sentences and then put into an open 
environment for speaking practice. Here is a sample exercise for the 
same sounds that you gave, in medial position. Notice that consonants 
after the vowels are different, because of the fact that in English 
syllable length changes according to the consonants that follow: beat 
(short) beef (half long) bead (long) and bees (very long). Try it. Most 
students have the most problems distinguishing the longer syllables. In 
Spanish, for example, all syllables remain short. Initial priority 
should always be given to the ears. 
 
 
 
 
 
MEDIAL VOWEL EXERCISE-1 & 2-Track 6 
 
 
 
 
 

-/i/-1 
-/I/-2 
 
 
 

heat 
hit 
 
 
 

cease 
sis 
 
 
 

heed 
hid 
 
 
 

keen 
kin 
 
 
 

Lee's 
Liz 
 
 
 

bead 
bid 
 
 
 
It was a
great heat. 
It was a great hit. 
 
 
 
I saw a cease fire
I saw sis fire. 
 
 
 
We heed it.

We hid it. 
 
 
 
They were keen.
They were kin. 
 
 
 
It was Lee's.
It
was Liz. 
 
 
 
See the bead.
See the
bid. 
 
 
 
Don't hit it, heat it. 
 
 
 

Will your sis ever cease? 
 
 
 

We heed it and they hid it. 
 
 
 

I'm keen to know her kin. 
 
 
 

Liz is at Lee's house. 
 
 
 

We bid on the bead. 
 
 
 
 
 
Here are the procedures that I use with my students. Vowel numbers are 
permanent and used to identify sounds all of the time. Beat and bit 
happen to have the permanent numbers one and two: 
 
 
 
 
 
1. Put the pairs of words and their identifiers on the marker board. 
Students are encouraged to copy these words in their notebooks, but are 
not given copies of the complete exercises. Students are encouraged to 
tape any exercises in class, rather than practice from the written 
language. My students receive an audio compact disk of all vowel sounds 
on their first day. 
 
 
 
2. The instructor should repeat these pairs of words with numbers both 
horizontally and vertically for familiarization. Vowel numbers will 
remain consistent with numbers used in the vowel hatches. 
 
 
 
3. The instructor will go to the back of the room and call out words at 
random for the students to identify numerically. This identification 
exercises can be done as both group and individual exercises. Example: 
HIT 2, HEAT 1, HEAT 1, CEASE 1, SIS 2, etc. If numerical errors are 
heard, call out the correct number. When a majority of the students are 
able to call the numbers correctly, change to double words at random. 
HEAT HEAT 1, 1, HIT HEAT 2, 1, HIT HIT 2, 2. HIT HEAT,
2, 1. etc. 
 
 
 
4. After most of the students are responding accurately to the minimal 
pairs, switch to the minimal sentence pairs. These sentence exercises 
should all be performed without written reference. First repeat the 
sentences while the students listen. Next read the sentences at 
unpredictable random and have the students identify target words in a 
sentence environment numerically. This will be more difficult, but will 
help the students to hear the sounds in a real structural environment. 
Continue this exercise with the group and with individuals. 
 
 
 
Example: It was a great heat. (1) It was a great hit (2) It was a great 
hit (2), etc. 
 
 
 
5. Finally give the students oral practice with sentences in which the 
target sounds are in free environments. "Don't hit it, heat
it." 
Occasional corrections should be done gently, diplomatically and in good 
humor. If vowels 1, 3, 8 and 10 sound "flat" students can be
instructed 
on how to make their mouth and throat muscles tense. To strengthen the 
oral and throat muscles takes time. Tongue twisters, "trabalenguas," 
which combine or emphasize target sounds, are useful and students often 
enjoy and memorize them. 
 
 
 
Vowel Numbers: 1 beat 2 bit 3 bait
4 bet 5 bat 6 bot 
(fly) 7 bought 8 boat 9 book 10 boot
11. but 
 
Diphthong Numbers 6+2 lied 6+9 loud
7+2 Lloyd 
 
 
 
Cheers, Ted 
 
<a href="http://www.tedklein-ESL.com" target="_blank">www.tedklein-ESL.com</a> 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
 
From: "Emma Bourassa" <<a href="mailto:ebourassa at tru.ca" target="_blank">ebourassa at tru.ca</a>> 
 
To: <<a href="mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov" target="_blank">englishlanguage at nifl.gov</a>> 
 
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:41 PM 
 
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2294] Re: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 31,Issue 
18 
 
 
 

>I believe it is Pronunciation Pairs that has illustrations, single word 

and short dialogue practice. For example there might be: 

> sit seat 

> bit beat 

> 

> etc. which is then worked into a conversation: 

> A: Bea, have a seat. 

> B: I can eat but can't sit. 

> A: Sit in the seat, and eat your meat. 

> B: No, I need to knit. 

> sorta silly but they do work for slow practice of moving the mouth and 

tongue around. 

> Pictures with mirrors so students can watch themselves works well. 

> e 

> 

> Emma Bourassa 

> English as a Second or Additional Language/ Teaching English as a 

Second Language Instructor 

> ESL Department 

> Thompson Rivers University 

> 900 McGill Road. P.O. Box 3010 

> Kamloops, B.C. V2C 5N3 

> (250) 371-5895 

> fax 371-5514 

> <a href="mailto:ebourassa at tru.ca" target="_blank">ebourassa at t