As a former teacher of toddlers, I can attest to that critical period for
learning language, as they learn new words much faster than at any other
time. As for learning new sounds as adults, I thought adults couldn't do it.
I have a Korean student who has proved that idea wrong. He practices
individual sounds until he can pronounce the words correctly (for American
English). I think it's certainly easier for children and babies, because
they are rapidly forming so many neural pathways.

Jenny at The Women's Center, Fort Worth TX

-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ujwala Samant
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:36 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2344] Re: Language learning and children


--- Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:


> For what it is worth I do not believe that

> "if a child is not exposed to a sound in the first

> three years of life, then

> the ability for the brain to recognize that sound

> later (when learning a

> second language) is limited, or even precluded."

> I simply know too many exceptions to that rule,

> including myself. It is not

> true for all. It may be true for some.

> 

> I believe that the brain is a Darwinian space. If a

> child is exposed to more

> than one language, this will develop an ability to

> process the sounds and

> structure of that language to some extent. If that

> is not continued this

> ability will decline. But reviving that ability will

> be easier, I believe,

> than starting from scratch. In either case, the

> motivation of the learner,

> the willingness to project oneself into the position

> of a speaker of another

> language, the position of a member of another

> cultural community,this

> attitude will be the most important factor. If a

> child can enjoy stories of

> another culture, and can enjoy the music and

> structure of another language,

> this will prepare the child for serious study

later.<<

That sounds like my son's experience of Arabic. When
living in a suburb of Paris, he picked up Arabic from
his babysitter who was Algerian and our neighbours who
were Tunisian. When he was 4 we moved to the US and
English replaced Arabic. We returned to France 5 years
ago and his teacher who was Tunisian told us that our
son's pronunciation of Arabic sounds was perfect. My
son told me he sometimes felt he had a filing cabinet
inside his brain and sounds just came out right.
Thought that was a good description, because it has
spurred his desire to learn languages, especially
Arabic.



> As Rubem Alves, famous Brazilian educator said

> 

> *Se o conhecimento científico  de anatomia fosse

> condição para se fazer

> amor, os professores de  anatomia seriam amantes

> insuperáveis. Se o

> conhecimento acadêmico  da gramática fosse condição

> para se fazer

> literatura, os  gramáticos seria escritores

> insuperáveis. Mas essa não é a

> verdade. ...

> 

> Gramática se faz com palavras mortas. Literatura se

> faz com palavras vivas.*

> 

> "If the scientific knowledge of anatomy were a

> condition for making love,

> professors of anatomy would be unrivaled lovers. If

> the academic knowledge

> of grammar were a condition for making literature,

> grammarians would be

> unrivaled writers. But this is not the case.....

> 

> Grammar is made with words that are dead. Literature

> is made with words that

> are alive."

> So let's teach the love of the language, not the

> academic details.,,


How beautiful! 
Thanks very much for reminding us that language is
about poetry, discovery....
Ujwala


> 

> Steve

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:16 AM, Martin Senger

> <MSenger at gecac.org> wrote:

> 

> >  Pax all!

> >

> >

> >

> > I think I should clarify what I am proposing. I

> was just wondering if

> > someone passively exposed a child (less than three

> years of age) to the

> > sounds of different languages, would that child

> retain the *ability to

> > recognize those sounds* later in life. Some

> research states that if a

> > child is not exposed to a sound in the first three

> years of life, then the

> > ability for the brain to recognize that sound

> later (when learning a second

> > language) is limited, or even precluded.

> >

> >

> >

> > Also, to play devil's advocate, would passive

> learning on a limited basis

> > (recorded samples of a language) provide any

> long-term benefit for second

> > language acquisition? I am not a researcher, nor a

> holder of advanced

> > degrees; I am simply an ESL teacher with a curious

> mind!

> >

> >

> >

> > Martin E. Senger

> >

> > Adult ESL Teacher

> >

> > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center

> >

> > Erie, Pa

> >

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:

> > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of

> *Martin Senger

> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:07 PM

> > *To:* The Adult English Language Learners

> Discussion List

> > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2331] Multiple

> language learning

> >

> >

> >

> > Pax all!

> >

> >

> >

> > Praised be for the Internet! I did a quick google,

> and found the tem

> > "hypnopedia." It refers explicitly to learning

> while sleeping. While pretty

> > much debunked for general learning, I saw nothing

> which talks strictly about

> > sound processing. Just from my own experience,

> there may be something to it.

> > I know, from the aforementioned 4 & 2-year olds,

> if they make even the

> > slightest "odd" sound while I am sleeping, I am

> instantly wide awake. I then

> > listen intently (hence the "wide awake") to hear

> any follow-up sounds worth

> > investigating. So, that must mean my brain is in

> some way processing some

> > sounds.

> >

> >

> >

> > Now I am not saying you could learn another

> "language" while sleeping, but

> > is it possible that we could introduce, or maybe

> even "teach" new language

> > sounds to the sleeping brain? What say you?

> >

> >

> >

> > Martin E. Senger

> >

> > Adult ESL Teacher

> >

> > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center

> >

> > Erie, Pa

> >

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:

> > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of

> *Andrea Canter

> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:04 PM

> > *To:* englishlanguage at nifl.gov

> > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2328] Re:

> EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32,

> > Issue 15

> >

> >

> >

> > Robin,

> >

> > Are their books pretty accessible to lay-people?

> >

> > Andrea

> >

> >  On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM,

> <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote:

> >

> > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to

> >        englishlanguage at nifl.gov

> >

> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide

> Web, visit

> >       

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body

> 'help' to

> >        englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov

> >

> > You can reach the person managing the list at

> >        englishlanguage-owner at nifl.gov

> >

> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it

> is more specific

> 

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