I'm not sure who posted this:

 

"I have other linguistic groups ( primarily Russian and Farsi) who do
not resort to speaking with each other in their native languages, except
under the most pressing circumstances. I think there are other factors
that explain the phenomenon that I describe.'

 

 

Your other factors may be socio-cultural practices, you can not compare
a Russian/American/German culture that lives for tomorrow and thinks
only for the future, with Spanish/Italians/French that live for
today...and are all about enjoying the moment and seizing the
opportunity now.      

 

I do have to share a very recent experience I had with SUNY Albany
Custodial Workers that work in isolation.  The ESOL students we just
had, attended (We had two classes (AM (17 participants)  & PM (16
participants) , 48 sessions.  The participants were Russian, Polish and
Chinese, and one lonely Hispanic.  We couldn't get them to stop talking
Russian, Polish & Chinese for the first 15 minutes of the class. I was
just the auditors, not the teacher and it was driving me crazy, but the
two experienced adult instructors,  decided these adults needed this
time in their own language, to unwind and relax and then participate
fully.

 

Ms. Gary Bartolina, Program Manager
Adult Education Basics
NYS & CSEA  Partnership for Education & Training
Corporate Plaza East - Suite 502
240 Washington Avenue Extension
Albany, NY 12203
Phone: 518-473-4990
Fax: 518-473-9457
bartolinag at nyscseapartnership.org
<mailto:bartolinag at nyscseapartnership.org> 
www.nyscseapartnership.org <http://www.nyscseapartnership.org/> 
"A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak."
(Michael Garrett Marino) 
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-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Robert Drury
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 4:45 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2702] Re: Effective Needs Assessment
Strategies

 

Thank you for your reply to my query.I appreciate your candor, and
insights based on your experience.
In response ( and without engaging in polemics), let me state that I do
not underestimate my students. On the contrary, since my inception as
instructor for this class, I have significantly raised the CASAS scores
( CASAS in the test used in California to gauge reading ability), as
well as overall attendance. For this I have received recognition. But I
think your response raises an important point, when you state : "If they
were not interested in learning English correctly, they wouldn't be in
your class". First, human consciousness is not so clear-cut as the
statement suggests. Many people undertake projects of self-improvement,
but , at another level,they either sabotage that effort consciously or
unconsciously by not following the instructions. Let me illustrate by
way of example; A person goes to a weight-reduction class to loss
weight. He or she has clearly evidenced the effort to improve by
enrolling ( possibly paying), attending, and doing exercises. I
respectfully submit that this very same person may sabotage his or her
effort by not adhering to the strict diet that goes along with the
exercises. So too with my students. They have demonstrated the necessary
desire by attending the class, but they also demonstrate the human
tendency to not enforce the linguistic discipline that this requires.
Further, given the overwhelming numbers of their linguistic peers, there
is the tendency and temptation to simply communicate in Spanish. For
whatever it's worth, I have other linguistic groups ( primarily Russian
and Farsi) who do not resort to speaking with each other in their native
languages, except under the most pressing circumstances. I think there
are other factors that explain the phenomenon that I describe.





________________________________

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:18:40 -0700
From: glyndalin at yahoo.com
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2697] Re: Effective Needs Assessment
Strategies

"They have all learned some, albeit broken, English and refuse to commit
to the effort required in learning it correctly. "

 

I think you may have seriously underestimated your students...If they
were not interested in learning English correctly the would continue to
learn on the streets and not waste their time with your class,
especially if they are advanced and already have sufficient English
survival skills.

 

You will get from your students what you expect from them. 

 

My students are almost exclusively in this category of Mexican Spanish
speakers.  The rule we have here is that in the intro level they may use
Spanish for asking questions and communicating important (personal)
information, but starting the high beginning level, English is the
language of the classroom for their own good.  It often requires me
saying apologetically, "I'm so sorry.  I don't speak Spanish" in order
to get them to speak English to me (which makes them laugh, because they
know it's not true, but it nonethelss yields the result I want - spoken
English).   Sometimes I shake "Spanish Sam" ( a cowboy (well, dog) bank
with his hand extended that has "Spanish 25 cents" on his hat.)  The
point isn't the fine.  I don't enforce it.  I shake the bank to remind
them of the class rules and usually they laugh and get back to the
business of learning English.  

 

I will say, too, that I am sensitive as to what they are saying in
Spanish.  If I come across people discussing what seems to be an
important subject in Spanish (dealing with personal issues, losses,
crises, advice seeking, etc.) AND I know the level of English is not
sufficient to handle the discussion,  I'll usually just say, "This
sounds important.  Take 5 more minutes, but then get back to English.
If you need more time, take a break and take it outside.  I expect to
hear you speaking English when I come back around."

 

I understand your frustration.  It is a constant issue, even with my
students who speak other languages.  "English please" is something that
I say at least 10 times a day   But I seriously doubt a lack of
committment is the reason for them slipping back into Spanish.....it's
human nature to speak L1 with people you know speak the same language as
you. 


Robert Drury <mangerom at hotmail.com> wrote:

	I just read Mr. Ted Klein's contract, and I think that it's
awesome. I teach a group of advanced students ( about 30), and they
would do well to adhere to the principles as set out in Mr. Klein's
contract. My query to the list is the following: What can I do to
impress on my students, most of whom are from Mexico ( and the majority
of whom are undocumented) the importance of their speaking English with
each other, at least while they are in class? They have all learned
some, albeit broken, English and refuse to commit to the effort required
in learning it correctly. This query fits within the discussion topic
because it goes to the heart of needs ( and wants) assessment.
	
	
	

	
________________________________


	Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:09:50 -0700
	From: afrench at sccd.ctc.edu
	To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
	Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 2689] Re: Effective Needs
Assessment Strategies

	Terry:

	 

	That is why I believe Ted considers it a good English lesson.
They can learn vocabulary as well as the idea and importance of signing
such agreements.  They learn that each person has responsibility for
making their class a success.  Finally, this would give them practice
for the real-life agreements they are faced-with from time to time and
which are much more complex.

	 

	Allan French

	South Seattle CC

	afrench at sccd.ctc.edu

	 

		-----Original Message----- 
		From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
Terry Said 
		Sent: Fri 6/20/2008 1:32 PM 
		To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List 
		Cc: 
		Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2689] Re: Effective Needs
Assessment Strategies

		Ted,
		
		Your students may be at a higher level than mine, but
		even my intermediate-level college ESL students would
		have a hard time reading your contract.
		
		Terry Pruett-Said
		
		--- Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:
		
		> I have my students sign an agreement when we start.
		> It gives them most of the responsibility for
		> acquiring English and to know that the teacher can
		> "lead them to water, but can't make them drink it."
		> This agreement is in itself a good English lesson!
		>
		> Ted
		> www.tedklein-ESL.com
		>
		>  Here it is:
		>
		>               ESL STUDENT-TEACHER RESPONSIBILITY
		> AGREEMENT
		>
		> 
		>
		> 
		>
		> TEACHER-As your English teacher, I agree to do the
		> best job that I can in the few hours that we are
		> together every week, to help you reach enough
		> English fluency to achieve your life goals. I will
		> work on your listening, speaking, reading and
		> writing skills. I will help you to increase your
		> vocabulary based on your real needs. I will do what
		> I can to increase your confidence in acquiring a new
		> language. I will be responsible for offering what
		> you need in useful information on the U.S. American
		> cultures. I will do my best to offer you
		> performance-oriented instruction plus information on
		> the English language as needed. I will speak to you
		> at normal speed and without exaggeration, so that
		> when you are in the bank, the mall, or places of
		> employment and business, you will understand and be
		> understood by others, outside of the classroom.
		>
		> 
		>
		> 
		>
		>
	
SIGNED------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
		>
		>                                 Teacher
		>
		> 
		>
		> STUDENT-As your student, I agree to take
		> responsibility for actually learning English. I
		> realize that very little of this will occur if I
		> stop acquiring English after class. This means that
		> I will look at my lifestyle and do what I can to
		> become truly bilingual. I realize that it takes
		> thousands of hours to really become competent in a
		> new language to the point that I can get the
		> education, training, and job that I want, in order
		> to achieve my life's goals in a new country. I also
		> know that acquiring a new language never stops.
		>
		> 
		>
		> I am not studying English just for fun. I am now
		> living in a country whose founders, even those who
		> spoke other languages, decided that English would be
		> the most practical medium of communication.  I know
		> that the best opportunities are available to persons
		> who speak, read and write English, regardless of
		> what their native languages are. I will still love
		> and continue using my native language at home, if I
		> choose.
		>
		> 
		>
		> If I work in a place where others speak my native
		> language, I will look for a job where I have to use
		> English, even if it is not easy at first. If all of
		> my friends speak my native language, I will try to
		> find new friends, with common interests, who don't
		> speak my language. I will read English whenever
		> possible, for pleasure or information. If  I'm not a
		> reader, I will change my priorities and read more. I
		> will become a better student, by taking the day's
		> work home and reviewing it, over and over if
		> necessary, until I have complete understanding of
		> what I learned in class and can apply it.  If I
		> still don't understand or can't do it, I will ask my
		> teacher to help me. I will never feel bad about
		> asking questions, in or out of class. I will expose
		> myself to English in all possible ways, on the
		> radio, television, movies, newspapers, books and
		> most of all social interaction with competent
		> English speakers.
		>
		> 
		>
		> I know that my teacher can teach, but he cannot
		> learn for me. That is my job.
		>
		> 
		>
		> 
		>
		>
	
SIGNED------------------------------------------------------------------
---
		>
		>                                   Student
		>
		>    
		>
		>
		>   ----- Original Message -----
		>   From: Donna Moss
		>   To: 'The Adult English Language Learners
		> Discussion List'
		>   Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:25 PM
		>   Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2679] Re: Effective
		> Needs Assessment Strategies
		>
		>
		>   I also like to have a whole group discussion and
		> class needs assessment before working on individual
		> goals.
		>
		>   One challenge of goal setting is helping students
		> articulate a goal that is realistic and achievable
		> in a given amount of time so that students can see
		> progress and feel a sense of accomplishment. The
		> goal, "I want to learn English" is great, but it's
		> really broad.
		>
		>    A goal statement can help students narrow their
		> goal and focus. A statement such as, I need to
		> improve my _____ (language skill) so I can ______
		> (do something) has worked for me. So, a student who
		> is looking for a job, might say, "I need to improve
		> my speaking and listening so I can ask and answer
		> questions when I have a job interview." Another
		> student who is a parent might say, "I need to
		> improve my speaking and listening so I can ask my
		> child's teacher questions in English."
		>
		>   At TESOL this year, I went to a workshop on
		> Strategies for Learner Goal Setting. One of the
		> strategies the facilitator suggested is having
		> students form "goal support groups." These groups
		> can be formed based on similarities in life roles or
		> type of work or goals. She schedules regular
		> meetings for 15 to 30 minutes and students talk to
		> each other about their goals and progress toward
		> their goals.
		>
		>   What are some ways to help students develop a plan
		> to meet their goals?
		>
		>   Donna Moss
		>   Program Specialist
		>   Arlington Education and Employment Program
		>   Arlington, VA
		>
		>
		>
		>
		>   >>> "Betsy Wong" <betsywong at comcast.net> 6/19/2008
		> 9:24 AM >>>
		>
		>   One of the strategies that has proven helpful in
		> assessing learners' language needs has been a
		> full-group discussion/brainstorming session, with
		> each one of these questions discussed at a time:
		>
		>   
		>
		>   Where do you speak English?
		>
		>   Where do you hear English?
		>
		>   Where do you read English?
		>
		>   Where do you write English?
		>
		>   
		>
		>   Although this is simplistic, it really gets
		> learners thinking about the situations in which they
		> need to use English (and I usually follow up the
		> question with, Are there any other times when you
		> want to speak/hear/read/write English more easily?)
		>
		>   
		>
		>   At the lower levels, it's helpful to use visuals
		> as well (e.g., a picture of a hospital or a
		> children's school - "Do you need to speak English
		> here?")
		>
		>   
		>
		>   I like to note answers on the board (this also
		> lends itself to a "mind-mapping" diagram) and copy
		> them for myself. I refer to it throughout the class
		> term.
		>
		>   
		>
		=== message truncated ===>
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Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD
Executive Director, English Now

512-719-9979 (work)
512-789-5131 (cell)

glyndalin at yahoo.com


 

 

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