<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [EnglishLanguage 3216] Re: I don't understand the current thinkingbehind teaching reading to adults!</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>It seems to me it is all about balance and attitude and what the books are for. In Tamela’s case, the learner is being given a valid reason for children’s texts to be used. <BR>
<BR>
We need to be careful sometimes because so many ESOL students already feel infantilised by the system and by their language barriers. <BR>
<BR>
If there is any way an adult could feel they were being given a particular text because of a negative attitude on the part of the teacher, this could have a really bad impact. <BR>
<BR>
EFL learners used simplified texts with controlled headword count and this may be more appropriate particularly in the case of adults who are already feeling sensitive about their status and the low level of respect they feel they receive on a daily basis. <BR>
<BR>
In the case of learners who are illiterate in their first language this may not be so much of an issue, but for adults who are literate in another language and so readily recognise children’s literature sensitivity may be raised. <BR>
<BR>
Frances <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 3/12/08 15:18, "Wheeler, Tamela" <tmwheeler@pstcc.edu> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT COLOR="#000080"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>I’ve used children’s books as a TOOL for my ESOL students to write their own children’s book. There’s so many stories and folk tales within our students and this is a good avenue for them to share their stories from their cultures of their lives. <BR>
<BR>
When I do this project, I require them to read up to 5 children’s books (I have a collection of children’s books that I provide). They fill out a form on each book (giving a summary, main characters, etc). They really like this project. I’ve have some beautiful children’s books written and illustrated by my ESOL students. This helps with reading and writing.<BR>
<BR>
Tamela Wheeler, MA<BR>
Pellissippi State Adult Education<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>
</SPAN></FONT>
<P ALIGN=CENTER>
<FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'><HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="2" WIDTH="100%"></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<P>
<FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'><B>From:</B> englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov [<a href="mailto:englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov]">mailto:englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov]</a> <B>On Behalf Of </B>Glenda Lynn Rose<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:54 AM<BR>
<B>To:</B> The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> [EnglishLanguage 3215] Re: I don't understand the current thinkingbehind teaching reading to adults!<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>I have to admit I"m a little insulted by tone of this response. I find it ironic that open-mindedness is appreciated, but the idea of using children's books is not included in that open-minded attitude. </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>I do selectively use children's books. I use them because as an adult some of my favorite books are still children's books and I use them when I teach English speakers other subjects as well as language arts. As far as my students being insulted, I have never had a student who complained. A lot of it may be in the presentation. </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>The use of children's books has to be done with an understanding of your goals and the goals of your students, of course. Some books I present because they are part of the culture - "I do not like them Sam I am" and "It's fun to have fun but you have to know how" are phrases from Dr. Seuss, used outside their original storybook context, for example. </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'><U>Alexander and the Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day</U></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> is one of my and my students' favorite books, because it reminds us that bad days happen and happen regardless of where you live ("even in Australia") (and how your attitude is in the morning really affects how you see the rest of the day.) <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>Some bilingual books, like <U>The Upside Down Boy</U> and <U>I Love Saturdays y Domingos</U> I use because my students are mainly parents, and these books address issues that their children may be experiencing.</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>David Schwarzer said that if the teacher likes to dance, everyone dances. Maybe that's part of the key. I love children's books. I continue to read them as an adult. I have a large personal collection of books from which my students <I>voluntarily</I> (ie., ASK) to borrow. If the teacher, however, dislikes children's books, then clearly he or she should not use them, because that dislike will be transmitted to the students and clearly will not be an effective teaching tool.</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>In short, I respect your decision to not use children's books and your reasons, but I also ask that you consider the possiblity that the use of children's books is not as "insulting" or degrading as you might think, depending on how and why they are used.</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN><FONT SIZE="5"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:24.0px'>Grace and Peace!<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT COLOR="#800080"><FONT SIZE="6"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:32.0px'><B>Glenda Lynn Rose, </B></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT COLOR="#800080"><B><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:17.0px'>PhD</SPAN></FONT></FONT></B></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:17.0px'>512-789-5131 (cell)</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:17.0px'>glyndalin@yahoo.com</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Tahoma"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:17.0px'> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> <BR>
--- On <B>Tue, 12/2/08, Jose Perez <I><joseperez3338@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> </SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'>From: Jose Perez <joseperez3338@gmail.com><BR>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3214] Re: I don't understand the current thinking behind teaching reading to adults!<BR>
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage@nifl.gov><BR>
Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:19 PM</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>Ali,<BR>
<BR>
Thank goodness for young, innovative, open-minded, "thinking outside<BR>
the box" individuals like you. We need more future educators like you,<BR>
so I want to thank you for your very astute observations and comments.<BR>
<BR>
In my humble opinion, there is no place for children's books in an<BR>
adult class--whether it's an ESL class or an ABE class. It is<BR>
insulting, degrading and humiliating for adults, males especially, to<BR>
be handed children's books. It is a mistake many educators make. Maybe<BR>
it's because they don't realize the stigma and unfortunate humialition<BR>
these adults go through just admitting that they can't read, or how<BR>
hard it is to learn the (complicated) English language when your<BR>
native language is, say, Spanish. So I applaud you for not stooping to<BR>
giving your adult students children's books.<BR>
<BR>
I know I've said this before, but I am most likely one of their<BR>
biggest fans. Have you tried the Junkyard Dan series by Nox Press?<BR>
These are books written on a first-grade reading level, but are for<BR>
adults and are not the typical condescending, dated, boring books that<BR>
we usually give these students. They are crime dramas. I use these<BR>
books with great success, and my students can't get enough of them. I<BR>
think that as a young, innovative educator, who seems to have a full<BR>
understanding on why our current ways are, on a whole, not effective<BR>
and not working very well for our adult students, if you visit the Nox<BR>
Press website, you will see what I am talking about. Your students<BR>
will thank you. But don't take my word for it. Check 'em out yourself!<BR>
<BR>
Good luck in your future teaching carreer, and may you make many great<BR>
changes in your lifetime.<BR>
<BR>
Jose Perez<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Ali Hesami <hesamiar@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>
> That's a great point, and exactly what I'm talking about. If we as<BR>
educators<BR>
> keep extrapolating on teaching methods for children because there are not<BR>
> many adult-specific methods, how can we ever hope to develop an<BR>
> adult-specific method? I think we can agree that adults of varying ages do<BR>
> not learn as children do, and have drastically different literacy needs.<BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Bonnie Odiorne<BR>
<bonniesophia@sbcglobal.net><BR>
> wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I don't know a lot about adult reading acquisition theories, but I<BR>
do know<BR>
>> that many researchers take what works for children and extrapolate,<BR>
since<BR>
>> little work has been done with adults. The most important issue would<BR>
be<BR>
>> content, as folks have mentioned, and how the brain works, added to<BR>
the<BR>
>> adult's experience (possible trauma from illiteracy) and passive<BR>
oral<BR>
>> vocabulary. I've been taught a combination of choosing key words<BR>
to remember<BR>
>> initial letters and word patterns to help with sound/letter<BR>
correspondence;<BR>
>> language experience stories that the learner would dictate and could<BR>
then<BR>
>> "read" relatively quickly, and a quick development of sight<BR>
word vocabulary.<BR>
>> Also workplace or other realia that the learner needs to function. In<BR>
>> relation to using children's books or techniques (the Wilson<BR>
method comes to<BR>
>> mind) I'd do it only if reading to children was one of the<BR>
adult's goals;<BR>
>> otherwise learners can make their own picture books with doodles and<BR>
>> accompanying text limited to their level and interest. I do have<BR>
direct<BR>
>> experience with taking a Methods and Materials ESL class whose<BR>
professor's<BR>
>> only knowledge of adult learners was of graduate assistants in her<BR>
>> University, though she claimed adult learning as her specialty;<BR>
otherwise<BR>
>> her materials came right out of chldren's contexts and K-12<BR>
methodology; she<BR>
>> didn't appreciate my more "practical" methods and<BR>
materials that didn't have<BR>
>> communicative language games....<BR>
>> Bonnie Odiorne, Post University Writing Center, Waterbury, CT<BR>
>> <BR>
>> --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Ali Hesami <hesamiar@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> From: Ali Hesami <hesamiar@gmail.com><BR>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3184] I don't understand the current<BR>
thinking<BR>
>> behind teaching reading to adults!<BR>
>> To: englishlanguage@nifl.gov<BR>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 12:29 AM<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Hello all.<BR>
>> My name is Ali Hesami, and I am currently a graduate student in the<BR>
adult<BR>
>> literacy program at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond,<BR>
Virginia</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>.<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>>> I've been attending a class called "Teaching Reading to<BR>
Adults" as part of<BR>
>> my required curriculum, and I have been wondering about the current<BR>
methods<BR>
>> used to teach reading to adults. It seems to me that the teacher teach<BR>
>> adults just as they would teach children, often even using research<BR>
and<BR>
>> writing on teaching reading to children as guidelines.<BR>
>> While I understand the usefulness of phonics, phonetics, etc. by<BR>
>> themselves, I firmly believe that an adult can better benefit from<BR>
learning<BR>
>> to read by simply reading in a classroom environment, guided by<BR>
teachers,<BR>
>> tutors, etc. An adult in his or her 40s or even 50s simply should not<BR>
have<BR>
>> to sit through long sessions of syllable by syllable instruction if<BR>
all they<BR>
>> desire id to be better able to communicate with others and better<BR>
express<BR>
>> their opinions about the world surrounding them.<BR>
>> I speak from experience here. I began learning English as a 14 year<BR>
old in<BR>
>> an international school in Tanzania. I placed into the 9th grade to<BR>
start;<BR>
>> no one ever even approached phonics, phonemes, etc. I read and<BR>
listened, all<BR>
>> the while guided by teachers who helped me with the material at hand.<BR>
I<BR>
>> became conversational in about three months or so, while I worked on<BR>
my<BR>
>> writing, also with guidance from my teachers. Conversely, while in<BR>
school in<BR>
>> my native Tehran, Iran, I was taught English in a similar manner as<BR>
here,<BR>
>> and I spoke a grand total of three phrases when I left Iran for<BR>
Tanzania</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:13.0px'>>> Hello, Fine thank you, and Beg your pardon? I'm not even joking<BR>
here!<BR>
>> I admit as a 14 year old I had an advantage over adults here, but I<BR>
can't<BR>
>> help but wonder if what worked for me would help adults much more than<BR>
>> playing word games and reading children's books.<BR>
>> Let's have them read material they can identify with in some way,<BR>
and keep<BR>
>> them reading, while slowly working on their writing skill alongside.<BR>
>> Let me know any thoughts, ideas, criticisms, etc. It has been eating<BR>
away<BR>
>> at me for a few months now.<BR>
>> Thanks in advance,<BR>
>> Ali Hesami<BR>
>> hesamiar@gmail.com<BR>
>> <BR>
>> ----------------------------------------------------<BR>
>> National Institute for Literacy<BR>
>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list<BR>
>> EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<BR>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<BR>
>> <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a><BR>
>> Email delivered to bonniesophia@sbcglobal.net<BR>
>> <BR>
>> ----------------------------------------------------<BR>
>> National Institute for Literacy<BR>
>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list<BR>
>> EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<BR>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<BR>
>> <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a><BR>
>> Email delivered to hesamiar@gmail.com<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ----------------------------------------------------<BR>
> National Institute for Literacy<BR>
> Adult English Language Learners mailing list<BR>
> EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<BR>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<BR>
> <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a><BR>
> Email delivered to joseperez3338@gmail.com<BR>
> <BR>
----------------------------------------------------<BR>
National Institute for Literacy<BR>
Adult English Language Learners mailing list<BR>
EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<BR>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<BR>
<a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a><BR>
Email delivered to glyndalin@yahoo.com<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:16.0px'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'><BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"></SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New">----------------------------------------------------<BR>
National Institute for Literacy<BR>
Adult English Language Learners mailing list<BR>
EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<BR>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to <a href="http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage">http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage</a><BR>
Email delivered to frances.nehme@gmail.com<BR>
</FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><BR>
</FONT></SPAN>
</BODY>
</HTML>