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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Bravo to Adam for taking this issue to his students to get their
opinion! I never considered using children’s books with
English language learners until a group of El Civics students brought some
children’s books to class and asked me to use them. These students were
refugees from the former Soviet Union—highly educated, highly
accomplished individuals. Initially, I ignored their request—thinking
these books were inappropriate for such intelligent, well-educated individuals—but
they were insistent, so I acquiesced. The students were delighted!
They read, read, and read. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Isn’t that what we want? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cynthia Roe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Instructional Specialist, Adult Education Programs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Continuing Education and Training<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Carroll Community College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>224 North Center Street<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Westminster, MD 21157<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>410-386-2552<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Adam W Nathanson/FS/VCU<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EnglishLanguage 3262] adult ESL students weigh in on
thechildren's literature debate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Hello
Everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I
am sitting here with some of my EL Civics students, women well-educated in
their home countries. I asked them their opinion of this debate, and
read some of the arguments to them from this online discussion. They see
no problem with using children's reading material to instruct adults,
especially when it promotes family literacy. They also stressed
that it depends on the individual learners' dispositions, and they
can understand why some adults might have reservations about the approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Adam
Nathanson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>EL
Civics instructor <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#990099'>-----englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov
wrote: -----</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>To: The Adult English Language Learners
Discussion List <englishlanguage@nifl.gov><br>
From: KRISTA K ANDERSON <KKANDERSON@burnsville.k12.mn.us><br>
Sent by: englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov<br>
Date: 12/05/2008 08:34PM<br>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3257] Re: I don't understand the current thinking
behind teaching reading to adults!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>First, I find it interesting that the most critical voices in this
discussion are men. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>One
reason I use children's books once in a while is that my students who are
parents are very interested in reading to their children, especially the
moms. I also try to emphasize reading books at home in their native
language, and not only English, but they are quite interested in reading to
their kids, and in being able to read books their kids bring home from
school. Also, some of my students don't read in their own language, or
sometimes children's books in certain languages may be hard to come by. </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Krista
Anderson </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov
[englishlanguage-bounces@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Glenda Lynn Rose
[glyndalin@yahoo.com] <br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, December 03, 2008 8:53 AM <br>
<b>To: </b>The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EnglishLanguage 3215] Re: I don't understand the current
thinking behind teaching reading to adults! </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I have to admit I"m a little insulted by tone of this
response. I find it ironic that open-mindedness is appreciated, but the
idea of using children's books is not included in that open-minded
attitude. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I do selectively use children's books. I use them
because as an adult some of my favorite books are still children's books and
I use them when I teach English speakers other subjects as well as language
arts. As far as my students being insulted, I have never had a student
who complained. A lot of it may be in the presentation. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The use of children's books has to be done with an
understanding of your goals and the goals of your students, of
course. Some books I present because they are part of the culture -
"I do not like them Sam I am" and "It's fun to have fun
but you have to know how" are phrases from Dr. Seuss, used outside
their original storybook context, for example. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><u>Alexander and the Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad
Day </u>is one of my and my students' favorite books, because it reminds us
that bad days happen and happen regardless of where you live ("even in
Australia") (and how your attitude is in the morning really
affects how you see the rest of the day.) <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Some bilingual books, like <u>The Upside Down Boy </u>and <u>I
Love Saturdays y Domingos </u>I use because my students are mainly parents,
and these books address issues that their children may be experiencing. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>David Schwarzer said that if the teacher likes to dance,
everyone dances. Maybe that's part of the key. I love children's
books. I continue to read them as an adult. I have a large
personal collection of books from which my students <em>voluntarily </em>(ie.,
ASK) to borrow. If the teacher, however, dislikes children's books,
then clearly he or she should not use them, because that dislike will be
transmitted to the students and clearly will not be an effective teaching
tool. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In short, I respect your decision to not use children's
books and your reasons, but I also ask that you consider the possiblity that
the use of children's books is not as "insulting" or degrading as
you might think, depending on how and why they are used. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Forte'>Grace and
Peace! <br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Vivaldi;color:purple'>Glenda
Lynn Rose, </span></b><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:purple'>PhD </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>512-789-5131 (cell) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:glyndalin@yahoo.com" target=blank>glyndalin@yahoo.com </a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
--- On <b>Tue, 12/2/08, Jose Perez <i><joseperez3338@gmail.com> </i></b>wrote:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>From: Jose Perez <joseperez3338@gmail.com> <br>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3214] Re: I don't understand the current thinking
behind teaching reading to adults! <br>
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage@nifl.gov> <br>
Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:19 PM <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Ali,<br>
Thank goodness for young, innovative, open-minded, "thinking outside<br>
the box" individuals like you. We need more future educators like you,<br>
so I want to thank you for your very astute observations and comments.<br>
In my humble opinion, there is no place for children's books in an<br>
adult class--whether it's an ESL class or an ABE class. It is<br>
insulting, degrading and humiliating for adults, males especially, to<br>
be handed children's books. It is a mistake many educators make. Maybe<br>
it's because they don't realize the stigma and unfortunate humialition<br>
these adults go through just admitting that they can't read, or how<br>
hard it is to learn the (complicated) English language when your<br>
native language is, say, Spanish. So I applaud you for not stooping to<br>
giving your adult students children's books.<br>
I know I've said this before, but I am most likely one of their<br>
biggest fans. Have you tried the Junkyard Dan series by Nox Press?<br>
These are books written on a first-grade reading level, but are for<br>
adults and are not the typical condescending, dated, boring books that<br>
we usually give these students. They are crime dramas. I use these<br>
books with great success, and my students can't get enough of them. I<br>
think that as a young, innovative educator, who seems to have a full<br>
understanding on why our current ways are, on a whole, not effective<br>
and not working very well for our adult students, if you visit the Nox<br>
Press website, you will see what I am talking about. Your students<br>
will thank you. But don't take my word for it. Check 'em out yourself!<br>
Good luck in your future teaching carreer, and may you make many great<br>
changes in your lifetime.<br>
Jose Perez<br>
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Ali Hesami <hesamiar@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
> That's a great point, and exactly what I'm talking about. If we as<br>
educators<br>
> keep extrapolating on teaching methods for children because there are
not<br>
> many adult-specific methods, how can we ever hope to develop an<br>
> adult-specific method? I think we can agree that adults of varying ages
do<br>
> not learn as children do, and have drastically different literacy needs.<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Bonnie Odiorne<br>
<bonniesophia@sbcglobal.net><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I don't know a lot about adult reading acquisition theories, but I<br>
do know<br>
>> that many researchers take what works for children and extrapolate,<br>
since<br>
>> little work has been done with adults. The most important issue
would<br>
be<br>
>> content, as folks have mentioned, and how the brain works, added to<br>
the<br>
>> adult's experience (possible trauma from illiteracy) and passive<br>
oral<br>
>> vocabulary. I've been taught a combination of choosing key words<br>
to remember<br>
>> initial letters and word patterns to help with sound/letter<br>
correspondence;<br>
>> language experience stories that the learner would dictate and could<br>
then<br>
>> "read" relatively quickly, and a quick development of
sight<br>
word vocabulary.<br>
>> Also workplace or other realia that the learner needs to function.
In<br>
>> relation to using children's books or techniques (the Wilson<br>
method comes to<br>
>> mind) I'd do it only if reading to children was one of the<br>
adult's goals;<br>
>> otherwise learners can make their own picture books with doodles and<br>
>> accompanying text limited to their level and interest. I do have<br>
direct<br>
>> experience with taking a Methods and Materials ESL class whose<br>
professor's<br>
>> only knowledge of adult learners was of graduate assistants in her<br>
>> University, though she claimed adult learning as her specialty;<br>
otherwise<br>
>> her materials came right out of chldren's contexts and K-12<br>
methodology; she<br>
>> didn't appreciate my more "practical" methods and<br>
materials that didn't have<br>
>> communicative language games....<br>
>> Bonnie Odiorne, Post University Writing Center, Waterbury, CT<br>
>><br>
>> --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Ali Hesami <hesamiar@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> From: Ali Hesami <hesamiar@gmail.com><br>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3184] I don't understand the current<br>
thinking<br>
>> behind teaching reading to adults!<br>
>> To: englishlanguage@nifl.gov<br>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 12:29 AM<br>
>><br>
>> Hello all.<br>
>> My name is Ali Hesami, and I am currently a graduate student in the<br>
adult<br>
>> literacy program at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond,<br>
Virginia.<br>
>> I've been attending a class called "Teaching Reading to<br>
Adults" as part of<br>
>> my required curriculum, and I have been wondering about the current<br>
methods<br>
>> used to teach reading to adults. It seems to me that the teacher
teach<br>
>> adults just as they would teach children, often even using research<br>
and<br>
>> writing on teaching reading to children as guidelines.<br>
>> While I understand the usefulness of phonics, phonetics, etc. by<br>
>> themselves, I firmly believe that an adult can better benefit from<br>
learning<br>
>> to read by simply reading in a classroom environment, guided by<br>
teachers,<br>
>> tutors, etc. An adult in his or her 40s or even 50s simply should
not<br>
have<br>
>> to sit through long sessions of syllable by syllable instruction if<br>
all they<br>
>> desire id to be better able to communicate with others and better<br>
express<br>
>> their opinions about the world surrounding them.<br>
>> I speak from experience here. I began learning English as a 14 year<br>
old in<br>
>> an international school in Tanzania. I placed into the 9th grade to<br>
start;<br>
>> no one ever even approached phonics, phonemes, etc. I read and<br>
listened, all<br>
>> the while guided by teachers who helped me with the material at
hand.<br>
I<br>
>> became conversational in about three months or so, while I worked on<br>
my<br>
>> writing, also with guidance from my teachers. Conversely, while in<br>
school in<br>
>> my native Tehran, Iran, I was taught English in a similar manner as<br>
here,<br>
>> and I spoke a grand total of three phrases when I left Iran for<br>
Tanzania:<br>
>> Hello, Fine thank you, and Beg your pardon? I'm not even joking<br>
here!<br>
>> I admit as a 14 year old I had an advantage over adults here, but I<br>
can't<br>
>> help but wonder if what worked for me would help adults much more
than<br>
>> playing word games and reading children's books.<br>
>> Let's have them read material they can identify with in some way,<br>
and keep<br>
>> them reading, while slowly working on their writing skill alongside.<br>
>> Let me know any thoughts, ideas, criticisms, etc. It has been eating<br>
away<br>
>> at me for a few months now.<br>
>> Thanks in advance,<br>
>> Ali Hesami<br>
>> hesamiar@gmail.com<br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
>> National Institute for Literacy<br>
>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list<br>
>> EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<br>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<br>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage<br>
>> Email delivered to bonniesophia@sbcglobal.net<br>
>><br>
>> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
>> National Institute for Literacy<br>
>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list<br>
>> EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<br>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<br>
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage<br>
>> Email delivered to hesamiar@gmail.com<br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------<br>
> National Institute for Literacy<br>
> Adult English Language Learners mailing list<br>
> EnglishLanguage@nifl.gov<br>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<br>
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage<br>
> Email delivered to joseperez3338@gmail.com<br>
><br>
----------------------------------------------------<br>
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Adult English Language Learners mailing list<br>
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to<br>
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Email delivered to glyndalin@yahoo.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>----------------------------------------------------<br>
National Institute for Literacy<br>
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to <a
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Email delivered to nathansonaw@vcu.edu</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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