You may be right about that, that the written word is like a foreign
language to her at this point. She was probably delayed in her reading
development, maybe even taught herself a good bit. She may have looked at
reading as what those other people do...  and now she can too, albeit
without the comprehension.
Thanks,
Mora

-----Original Message-----
From: familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nancy
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 5:51 PM
To: The Family Literacy Discussion List; Susan McShane
Subject: [FamilyLiteracy 1015] Re: Fluency without comprehension,Mora's
student

Interesting and helpful discussions. Thank you.  I teach ESOL and am looking
for reading comprehension strategies for my classes.
Fluency without comprehension is no surprise to me.  I've encounted it in an
elderly Russian gentleman for both oral and silent reading, and in a bright
young Korean college student during oral reading.  The opposite happend to
me when I was "learning" Spanish in college and could read and write Spanish
but could not speak it.
There's a watershed, perhaps, between written and spoken language, which may
be true for Mora's student. 
What I've done with some success is start with vocabulary, using a
multi-modal method by topic with audio CD and a picture dictionary, where
students simultaneously hear a word (audio) as they read it and connect it
to a picture (visual), then they repeat it (kinesthetic, speech).  We
discuss any they don't recognize or understand (comprehension), then they
write each word (kinesthetic, writing), to practice its spelling.  We end
with another round of listen/see/read/repeat. 
The vocabulary basics let us use simple sentences for both comprehension &
expression.  Subsequent lessons of the day use the vocabulary words for
other work on the same topic, from conversation to grammar.
Hope this helps.
Nancy Hoover, M.A.Ed.ESOL I & IIMount Wachusett Community CollegeGardner, MA
=====================From: Susan McShane <smcshane at famlit.org>Date:
2008/02/07 Thu PM 03:05:33 CSTTo: The Family Literacy Discussion List
<familyliteracy at nifl.gov>Subject: [FamilyLiteracy 1013] Re:
ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today

That’s interesting. I think Iremember something like that being reported
way back in the old days, too.Teachers most often assign reading practice
activities and ask questions, butdon’t necessarily teach comprehension and
question-answering strategies. Â And maybe teachers are not
entirelycomfortable with “modeling.” What do others think? Is
thatpossible? Â From:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of jalsails at aol.comSent:
Thursday, February 07, 20082:52 PMTo: familyliteracy at nifl.govSubject:
[FamilyLiteracy 1009] Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins
Today Susan,
According to our research (using the CORI during 10 minute observations)
inelementary school classrooms, 3rd grade teachers who do address
comprehensionare four times (on the average) more likely to direct students
to practicecomprehension strategies than to model it. 
I agree with you that it's hard to explicitly model comprehension
strategieswith large groups of adults who have diverse reading abilities.
It's a stellarstrategy for tutoring and working with small groups of
beginning (adult)readers.
Jeri Levesque, Ed.D.Evaluator, LIFTSt. Louis,
MOÂ Â -----OriginalMessage-----From: Susan McShane <smcshane at famlit.org>To:
The Family Literacy Discussion List<familyliteracy at nifl.gov>Sent: Thu, 7 Feb
2008 1:18 pmSubject: [FamilyLiteracy 1008]
Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins TodayThat’s
interesting Jeri. One of thethings we’ve found we really have to hit hard
is the need for explicitinstruction. Most often in adult education settings,
that’s not done, andit can be hard to manage in a multi-level group,
especially when people arealso studying math and writing, etc. The
researchers I worked with in writingthe book suggested that a teacher could
introduce a strategy to the whole groupand then have them practice with
different materials at their own readinglevels. I agree it’s a good idea,
but I think it’s easier said thandone in some classrooms and
programs. What do you think, Jeri? And can we hearfrom others about their
experiences in managing comprehension-monitoringinstruction? And how about
that idea of modeling your own strategies by readingand thinking aloud?
 From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of jalsails at aol.comSent: Thursday, February 07, 20081:35 PMTo:
familyliteracy at nifl.govSubject: [FamilyLiteracy 1005]
Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Susan,
Good point about teachers explicitly modeling their comprehension
strategieswhile reading with students. We use an instrument called the
ClassroomObservation of Reading Instruction (CORI) <Levesque & Drew>
todocument direct and explicit instruction across the five essential
readingconstructs. For comprehension instruction (Teacher
models/demonstrates), duringa ten minute observation we track the number of
times a teacher describes andnames a specific comprehension strategy and
expounds on its value. Thestrategies we tract are Prereading comprehension
strategies Describing comprehension     strategies retelling sequencing
drawing conclusions predicting text connection (self, world,     other text)
summarizing generating/answering own     question re-reading for meaning
confirming/rejecting     predictions work with story grammar or
expository structureThe parallel column of the CORI tracks: Teacher
DirectsStudents to Practice: literal recall of text, using context clues
(pictures,format etc) and all the other ones above.
Jeri Levesque, Ed.D.Evaluator, LIFTSt. Louis, MOÂ Â -----Original
Message-----From: Susan McShane <smcshane at famlit.org>To: The Family Literacy
Discussion List<familyliteracy at nifl.gov>Sent: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 11:02
amSubject: [FamilyLiteracy 1004]
Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins TodayThank you, Aaron,
for sharing thoseexperiences. Stopping and restating/summarizing is among
the research-basedmonitoring strategies. Asking yourself questions is
another. Has anyone elseused these approaches? Â From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Kohring, Aaron MSent: Thursday, February 07, 200811:04 AMTo: The
Family Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy
1002]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Susan, I
have experienced what you mentionworking with some students in the past-
where we discovered their decoding/wordanalysis skills (for the level of
text we were using) had improved to the pointwhere their oral fluency was
good.  But they had very little comprehensionof what they had just read. 
So we introduced & taught students to usea comprehension strategy-
summarization, for example- and asked them to stopafter a few sentences or a
paragraph and summarize what they had read. Later, we’d add another
strategy- such as a graphic organizer- andpractice using that as a
comprehension strategy. Another great activity was to extend thequestion
generating/answering strategies for comprehension and have students dothis
themselves in pairs or groups.Aaron  Aaron KohringResearch AssociateUT
Center for Literacy Studies600 Henley St, Ste 312Knoxville, TN 37996-4135Ph:
865-974-4258Main: 865-974-4109Fax: 865-974-3857akohring at utk.edu From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Susan McShaneSent: Thursday, February 07, 20089:42 AMTo: The
Family Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy
999]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Certainly
for instructional purposesinformal assessments can be valuable, so maybe the
idea of using shorterpassages is a good one. If oral language processing is
part of the problem,then shorter passages are probably worth a try. I
understand that this learnerpresents some “mysterious” questions. You
are to be congratulatedfor working so hard to understand her problems. As
to your other question, I do think that it makes sense to begin with one
ofthe comprehension-monitoring strategies. That’s whatit’s all about for
many of our readers—paying attention to themeaning, so they notice when
it’s confusing or when they don’tunderstand the use of a word for
instance. I think some readers focus on“getting to the end of the page”
instead of understanding orlearning. That may be why they don’t notice
when it doesn’t makesense. There’s research to show that some students
don’t noticeinconsistencies in text they are reading. That means maybe
their attention haswandered, or maybe they just are not aware of what active
reading for meaningis all about. For them, reading is what they’ve been
doing for years, andthat’s running their eyes over the text, identifying
the words, orgetting to the end of the page. Teaching one or two specific
monitoringstrategies may be a great way to get started on improving
comprehension withthis kind of reader. Â From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Charlotte Learning CenterSent: Wednesday, February 06, 20083:50
PMTo: 'The Family Literacy Discussion List'Subject: [FamilyLiteracy
995]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Oh, I see
your point. The leveling was forinstructional reasons and to show gains. The
WIB usually uses the TABE, butwill accept any form of assessment. Â I do not
use a standardizedassessment because there has been no reason to. Â Usually
I can get a level on an individualfairly easily and chart out the game plan.
This one threw me off. Â From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Susan McShaneSent: Wednesday, February 06, 20081:26 PMTo: The
Family Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy
992]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today I guess your
concerns about defining her“level” raise another question for me. Why do
you need a level? Isthis for accountability so you can measure gains? If so,
you certainlydon’t want to overestimate her level. Or is the purpose to
identifyappropriate reading materials? It appears that you don’t have to
use astandardized test, so I’m assuming you’re more interested
inassessment for instructional purposes, but if the Board requested
thisinformation, maybe there are other purposes. Â From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Charlotte Learning CenterSent: Tuesday, February 05, 20087:18
PMTo: 'The Family Literacy Discussion List'Subject: [FamilyLiteracy
974]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Susan,Thanks
very much for the attention youhave given my case. I will pass on the advice
to her tutor. Â I guess asfar as leveling her, which I was asked to do
initially by the WorkforceInvestment Board, is it going to be trial and
error? Â I thought the use ofshort passages at higher levels(3rd-4th) may
work out, with a few multiple choice orcloze sentences to check. That
suggestion was given to me by an LD teacher.Regarding our discussion thread,
ismonitoring one’s understanding one of the first strategies, if not the
first, to teach?  Thanks,Mora From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Susan McShaneSent: Tuesday, February 05, 20083:31 PMTo: The Family
Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy
971]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today This learner
obviously presents manychallenges, and I’m afraid I don’t have any
simple answers for you.However, I would like to say I’m very glad you’re
working with her.It’s clear that she needs and deserves the help. She’s
apparentlyjust “calling words” as they used to say, and that’s not
anindication of her comprehension of the passage. It also appears that both
oralcommunication skills and background knowledge may be limited. Â It might
make sense to work onvocabulary—teaching a few new words every week, with
plenty of examplesof how to use them, lots of practice, and regular review.
She might create a“personal dictionary” that includes all the new words
she learns,along with definitions and sample sentences. This makes
vocabulary development“concrete” and she’ll be able to see her
growth. Once again, I think we all appreciate yourefforts. If anyone else
has any ideas, please pass them on.  Susan McShaneNational Center for
FamilyLiteracy502-584-1133, Ext. 175smcshane at famlit.orgFrom:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Charlotte Learning CenterSent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008
2:14PMTo: 'The Family Literacy Discussion List'Subject: [FamilyLiteracy
970]Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Hi all
thanks for all of your replies.Here is more information on the individual I
spoke of yesterday:The student is a 67-year-old AfricanAmerican female who
quit a segregated school in the 11th grade, andprobably had a poor education
up to that point. She just got a job at a libraryrecently through the
Virginia Older Workers program. She cannot alphabetize.She also cannot make
pretty obvious choices about leveling children’sbooks. Her tutor (and new
boss) has had to rephrase directions quite often andsays weak vocabulary and
weak oral communication skills are definitely part ofher case. What I mean
by mainstream refers to whatwe expect of someone who has gone to school and
has the cultural literacy wewould expect of a high school graduate today;
for example she may not know whata “main idea” is, but can still learn
and understand? How can shepossibly be able to read at a 6th grade level and
not comprehend ata 1st grade level? For those of you who want more info
fromthe assessment:Â She is in the late within word stageof spelling (cluct
for CLUTCH), reading at 98% on her Word Recognition inContext 6th grade
passage, 90% on the untimed Word Recognition inisolation at the 6th grade
list. She demonstrated Independent andInstructional scores up to that point,
except in the Oral Comprehension whereshe bombs across the board. Her silent
reading comprehension also bombed. Herreading rates are around 100 wpm. Yes,
which come to think of it contradicts afluency reader at the 6th grade, but
could be 3rd. Beforeshe read the passages on the informal reading inventory,
I asked her somequestions to assess her background knowledge e.g.: Her
answer to “What issoccer” Her answer: “Game played outside by two
people”. Or,“What do flowers need to grow? “A yard.”   Mora From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Susan McShaneSent: Monday, February 04, 20085:28 PMTo: The Family
Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy 961]
Re:ComprehensionMonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Hi Mora, I was
actually referring to simplifyingthe task rather than the reading level of
the material, but you raise a goodpoint. To introduce a comprehension
strategy you probably want to begin with materialthat isn’t too difficult
to decode. The learner should be able to focusmainly on the strategy, not on
identifying the words. (After they’velearned the strategy, obviously they
can use it with anything they need toread, and sometimes the material will
be difficult. That’s when they needthe strategy most!) As to your other
points, before respondingwe have a few clarifying questions: Â  Has     this
student been successful in demonstrating her comprehension when reading
silently? Is oral reading as an assessment task intimidating for her, so
perhaps she is working hard not to make any mistakes and is therefore not
able to focus on meaning?  You     suggest that her “mainstream”
communication skills are     limiting her ability to answer
questions/demonstrate understanding.     I’m not quite sure what you mean
by this. I assume you’ve had     other opportunities to converse with her.
Is there any reason to believe     she is not a good oral communicator?  Is
it possible that the vocabulary is part of the problem? You used the term
“native” in describing her. Is she a native English speaker or     do
you mean to say she is a Native American? Of course, even native     English
speakers may have very limited vocabularies. We     also find it baffling
that she can read accurately at the 6th-grade     level but doesn’t appear
to comprehend even at the 1st-grade     level. Do you have any
other—perhaps less formal—assessment of     her understanding? Have you
heard her participate in discussions about her     reading? Or, once again,
have you given a silent reading     test—perhaps answering questions in
some curriculum material     she’s using? You’ve presented us with a
veryinteresting—and intriguing—example. If you can give us some
moreinformation, we might continue with this conversation. Do others have
anythingto suggest with regards to this student? SusanFrom:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Charlotte Learning CenterSent: Monday, February 04, 20083:54 PMTo:
'The Family Literacy Discussion List'Subject: [FamilyLiteracy 956]
Re:Comprehension MonitoringStrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Susan, you said
to have a student restateafter a few sentences if necessary. If a student
has such low understanding ofa text (that they are able to read fluently) it
does make sense to lower theirinstructional reading level, to something, as
you said, that isn’t too complicated.However,  I have a native,
elderlyadult student who can read fluently up to a 6th grade level,
butcannot correctly answer comprehension questions at any level (1st-6th) on
aQRI. Â Â Deciding an instructional level given her fluency rates is a
littlebaffling. How does one assess a starting point forusing these
comprehension strategies? And also, how much of comprehensiontesting is
also a test of oral communication skills, and perhaps in thisinstance (in
the QRI) “mainstream” communication skills arerequired to demonstrate
comprehension, e.g. give the main idea.MoraFrom:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Susan McShaneSent: Monday, February 04, 200811:44 AMTo: The Family
Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy 953] Re:Comprehension
Monitoring StrategiesDiscussionBegins Today Hello Everybody! Since there
are so manypossibilities in the broad category of comprehension monitoring,
Donna and Ithink that it’s probably best to start with something that
makes sense tothe learner and isn’t  too complicated.  One possibility
is restating—that isputting what they’ve read into their own words. You
can explain thatit’s a good way to stay focused on the meaning and to
“test”their understanding.  Ask them to stop after the first section
orparagraph (or even the first couple of sentences) and try to put what
thewriter said in their own words. If they can’t do it, that’s a
cluethat they may need to re-read and think about it more
carefully. Another possibility is a variation on the“coding text”
strategy. The book includes an example that has severaldifferent kinds of
marks to indicate questions, mark important facts, and makeother responses
to the text. You might start with something much simpler thatintroduces the
idea of marking the text. Maybe they could just underline anywords they
don’t understand or put a check mark by any important orinteresting facts
or bits of information. If they begin with just one or maybetwo kinds of
“codes” it may be less intimidating.  Starting with one of these simple
approachesalso makes it easier for you/the teacher to demonstrate and model
the strategy. Does this sound reasonable? Has anyonedone anything like this
or used any other comprehension-monitoring strategies? From:
familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov[mailto:familyliteracy-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Gail PriceSent: Monday, February 04, 200811:19 AMTo: The Family
Literacy Discussion ListSubject: [FamilyLiteracy 952]Comprehension
Monitoring Strategies DiscussionBegins Today Good morning, List members, I
am very pleased to welcome Susan McShane, ReadingInitiative Specialist at
the National Center for Family Literacy, and Donna Elder, Reading Specialist
at the National Center for Family Literacy, to our List.They will be leading
the discussion on comprehension monitoring strategies foradult readers. I
know many of you have been looking forward to this discussionand I hope you
are prepared to join in with your questions, comments andexperiences. Â I
would like to get usstarted by asking Susan and Donna how they introduce the
comprehensionmonitoring strategies on pages 80- 82 of Applying Research in
Reading Instruction for Adults:First Steps for Teachers, to students. Is
there aparticular strategy that you introduce before the others? How might
you presentthe strategy to maximize learner buy-in? Â Â Â Â Gail J.
PriceMultimedia SpecialistNational Center for FamilyLiteracy325 W. Main
Street,  Suite 300Louisville, KY 40202gprice at famlit.org502 584-1133, ext.
112Â Â Join usfor the 17th Annual National Conference on Family
Literacy!"LiteracyGrows Families and Communities"March 30, 31, & April 1,
2008-Louisville, KYRegister online at
www.famlit.org/conference -------------------------------------------------
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