Thank you Glenn and amen.  I was beginning to think that maybe I was on 
the wrong listserv
Laura Chenven

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Young <gyoungxlt at comcast.net>
To: 'The Learning Disabilities Discussion List' 
<learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>
Sent: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:38:26 -0600
Subject: Re: [LearningDisabilities] Adolescents and ESL guest 
discussion onEnglish Language List

If I may chime in a bit .... please remember that LD is not a reading 
issue ... reading deficits is one of many potential manifestations of 
LD.  There are many people with low-literacy skills who are not LD. and 
have limited or no exposure to literacy.  In the US this is a very 
small number for the "native born" population.  We do not really have 
clear data on the rates of immigrants who also have had no exposure to 
literacy in their nations of origins.  
 
In this population, of those never or with very limited exposure to 
literacy,  there may or may not be persons with LD also ... but 
initially there will be limited means to determine which is which 
...that difference will begin to become clearer as the persons attempts 
to gain literacy skills ... But the inability to differentiate between 
the two cause confounding factors in both educational approaches and in 
research ....
 
However ... if I may ... this list serve was designed to talk about LD 
... nor literacy issues per say ... The conversation has gotten stuck 
again in the "feed back" lop that  comes up every few years, among 
teachers especially ... seeing LD as a literacy issue and not what it 
really is ... a disability issue.   The is no "silver bullet" in 
reading instructions for persons with ... the issues of "success" is 
based on such a wide range of facts of that it become very hard to 
generalize concerning on approach or another ... and most research that 
has been done is so ripe with selection bias as to make the findings 
highly questionable at best ... Besides, if people with LD could be 
"fixed" by a little good teaching ... it clearly would not be a 
disability ... people would be "suffering" from a "teaching disorder"  
... and the research shows, that while many are mis-classified for 
numerous reasons ... the persons who are really LD, do no simple have a 
reading disorder, but a disability with reading issues as one of it 
manifestations.
 
It is clear from recent research, that among many things has been the 
foundation of NCLB and other efforts, the LD is not a literacy issue 
... it is a neurologically based disorder that impacts, in many cases 
the sections of the brain responsible for the processes involved in 
reading (others it impacts math areas, graphic areas, or a combination 
of these areas and or other areas)  LD is in fact what it was called in 
the 1950's Minimum Brain Dysfunction (MBD).  
 
In addition, the recent research of many, including the MRI studies of 
the most successful of the Orton adults (adults with dyslexia 
identified and "treated" over the course of many years by the Orton's 
(both husband and wife) show that the reading interventions do not 
"fix" people with LD.
 
The recent research continue to show that the combination of 
"rehabilitative approaches" such as very intensive reading instruction, 
assistive technology and accommodations are the best methods to 
increase the functionality of the adult and older student with LD.  In 
addition, due to the complexity of adult lives and the demands upon 
adults to work and support families, and the extremely limited 
resources available in the field,  very few adults will be able to 
devote the extensive time needed for effective "rehabilitation 
approaches, nor find professionals who have the knowledge to deliver 
these individualized intensive instruction."   
 
Therefore, the most important components of successfully supporting 
adults with LD who have reading deficits is through assistive 
technology and reasonable accommodations, not through reading programs 
that increase their skill levels one to two grade levels a year.
 
I see it as irresponsible and highly inappropriate, based on what we 
now know to only talk about or approach LD as a reading issues and hold 
up anecdotal and biased findings as the basis of false hopes to a very 
desperate population. 
 
This conversation renewal of the feed back lop has gone on for so long 
on this site it appears to me to leave the field of disability and 
focus too much on the field of literacy training.  Can we get back to 
the discussion of people with LD as persons with disabilities, the main 
purpose of this site ...
 
thanks
 
Glenn Young
 
 
Glenn Young
505 East Braddock Rd # 608
Alexandria VA 22314
703-684-1750
gyoungxlt at comcast.net
 
 

--------
 From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov 
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of 
RKenyon721 at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 9:53 AM
To: LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
Subject: [LearningDisabilities] Adolescents and ESL guest discussion 
onEnglish Language List



Hello all,
 
In addition to the previous posting where I shared with you a 
discussion about English Learners, there is going to be another one, on 
the English Language List. Below is the information about that one.
 
Rochelle Kenyon, Moderator
National Institute for Literacy Learning Disabilities Discussion List
RKenyon721 at aol.com



The Adult English Language Learners is planning an online discussion on
adolescent learners in adult ESL/ESOL classes from February 8-14, 2006.
To join the English language list, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html and follow the
directions for subscribing.

Adolescent English language learners (ELLs) are a growing population in
secondary schools and a steady presence in postsecondary (adult)
education programs. Many of you have experienced the unique
characteristics and needs that adolescent ELLs present in the adult ESL
classroom. Like their adult counterparts, some of these adolescents may
be undocumented or may not have high literacy or education levels in
their native languages. They may be trying to juggle work, education,
community, and family responsibilities both here and in their native
countries. Some may be struggling with cross-generational reunification
issues. Others may have been born and raised in the U.S. but failed to
succeed in traditional K-12 schooling. Despite their varied educational,
social, and cultural backgrounds, these adolescents have one thing in
common - their developmental stage and related needs may set them apart 
from the adult students in your classes.

As high school exit criteria grow more demanding in the United States,
students with limited or interrupted schooling are finding it difficult
to graduate within the timeframes traditionally allocated for high
school study. As a result, these students are turning to adult education
to earn high school diplomas, increase their job skills, and improve
their English language proficiency. On February 8-14 Sarah Young, author
of Adolescent Learners in Adult ESL Classes,
http://www.cal.org/caela/esl_resources/briefs/adolescent.html  will lead
a discussion and respond to questions about this topic.

Sarah is an instructor at the Arlington Education and Employment Program
(REEP) in Arlington, Virginia. She is also an adult ESL content
specialist at the Center for Applied Linguistics where she works on
several projects related to adolescent and adult English language
learners.

On February 8, Sarah will summarize some of the issues related to
adolescents studying in adult ESL/ESOL classrooms (e.g., who these
learners are and why they are in adult ESL/ESOL classes, what
instructional strategies may work well with this population, what types
of educational opportunities may be available).

To review the topic before the discussion, please read brief (above),
which includes an extensive bibliography.

We hope you will share your own experiences, advice, and comments,
before, during, and after the days that Sarah leads the discussion and
fields questions.

If questions or comments are raised before next Tuesday, I will forward
them to Sarah.

You may also send comments or questions to me off the list at
lterrill at cal.org



Lynda Terrill
English Language Discussion List
Center for Adult English Language Acquisition Center for Applied
Linguistics
4646 40th St, NW
Washington, DC
lterrill at cal.org
tel 202-362-0700
fax 202-363-7204
http://www.cal.org/caela


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