Thank you for expressing what tutors universally experience: the joy that
comes from knowing you are making a difference in someone's life.

Those laboring in the field know exactly what you are saying.

Here's an idea nobody's mentioned (or maybe I missed it):  Demand that the
curriculum for preparing K-6 teachers (whose responsibility it is to teach
reading!) include a minimum of 12 credits on how to reach and teach students
needing explicit direct instruction using a multi-sensory structured
approach in the structure of the English language.  This would conform to
the demands of the NCLB law.  It would give teachers the missing tool they
need to reach ALL students and not just those who would catch on to the code
without such help.

This would with one stroke, without additional cost, develop teachers who
reach all students.  It would certainly reduce the number assigned to
special ed classes.

Until we are teaching all students to read in the elementary grades, we are
as adult ed literacy providers putting a band aid on a hemorrhage.

Lucille Cuttler







-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Laurie Anson
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:45 PM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: Re: [LearningDisabilities] Practicalities


Glenn and all -

I believe my original post asked for specific resources to help me
help this one person. I am aware that teaching one person at a time
is not cost-efficient; nor is it a governmental financial goal. I am
very aware of the budget cuts to programs - I am a tutor trainer with
a local Adult Literacy program. I am also involved with health
literacy outreach policy (on my own time) at my place of employment,
a large HMO. Adult literacy isn't only about jobs and GEDs. It is
about lowering costs of medical care, by making appropriate
information available to all; it is about reducing dependency on
public funds, and it is about reducing the public costs of
prosecution of those frustrated "floaters" who only know anger as an
outlet for their inability to function in society; it is about
reducing the violence against those seen as easy victims with no
recourse.

My student has learned more than how to read at a low level. She has
learned how to control her temper. She hasn't been arrested or been
in a violent situation in many years. She no longer drinks or smokes.
She protects herself by having the self-confidence to say "no" to
those who would take advantage of her. How are these things measured
in financial terms?

And what is going to happen to all those young people being tested
out of the system? There are not enough of us to go around now...

Laurie Anson

How are these factors measured
On Feb 25, 2006, at 6:26 PM, Glenn Young wrote:


> Laurie ...

>

> You are of course free to do what you want ... But ... From the

> perspective

> of policy makers and program designers ... You have laid out the major

> problem facing adult ed today ...(I really mean it -- this it the

> problem)

> How can one (meaning government) justify spending the amount of

> money and

> resources that is required to meet the needs of program and

> administration

> of programs serving individuals with low literacy skills, when they

> are

> gaining one grade level a year ... Teachers/tutors are devoted to

> this and

> administrators are being trashed for this level of success ...

>

>

> (And by the way ... This persons gain is one grade level a yearso

> far,...Based on research, etc, it is also very likely, the person

> will soon

> hit a wall and the rate of literacy gain will not continue

> increasing but

> will level out and they will have much less gains than even one

> grade level

> a year ...)

>

> But let's assume that the rate of learning maintains the same ...

> And what

> is needed is at a minimum 10 grade reading skills to be competitive

> in the

> employment market, or to pass the GED,  ...

>

> You as a teacher will have to work with the person for another 5

> years to

> get there ... Or a total of 8 years ...

>

> 	(Never mind that they also need to gain all kinds of knowledge that

> that have not 	gotten over the years because they have not been

> able to get

> that information due 	to the inability to read --- this is what I call

> "information deficit disorder" -- 	it is this IDD that makes people so

> non-competitive in the work place ...even when 	they do learn to read)

>

> As a program administrator or public policy person (including elected

> officials) looking at cost benefits etc.... This is highly

> unacceptable and

> will lead to eventual budget cuts by funders (And maybe even me

> getting

> fired) ... And in fact this is what has happened nationally ...

> adult ed was

> faced with a 60% budget cut last year ... I haven't even looked to

> see what

> it will be in this year's budget ... Most states have greatly cut

> adult ed

> money ...

>

> So of course ... You, as an individual can devote your life's work

> to the

> teaching of this one person ... And that's fine for you, if you stay

> committed ... And if you are a volunteer tutor ... Well, so much

> the better

> for the agency's involved ... No cost, no problem ... (You go

> girl ... Stay

> with that person ...)

>

> However ... In order to gain more resources, and actually, even

> just to hold

> steady, Programs  need to show success at a much higher rate ...and

> that

> literacy training actually can be linked to employment success ---

> which is

> assumed but has never been directly shown in low-level employment

> settings

> ...

>

> Now ... There are many ways to obtain higher success rates ...

>

> One is kind of what they do in the K-12 schools in many places ...

> Force out

> the people who don't test well ... In general, we are doing it in

> adult ed

> as well ... If you look at the current stats ... Over 30% drop out

> rate

> prior to 10 hours of service ... WOW ... Almost 1/3 of the people

> reject the

> model and the service ... Despite the desperate need ...

>

> A second way is to only go after the low-hanging fruit ... Set such

> standards for service that only those who need only limited help

> are allowed

> to enter the service

>

> Or a third way is to do something like Kansas did ... Saying ...

> 	We know what is needed .. (researched based interventions) and

> 	we don't have the resources to give many people these services ...

> 	But if we don't give them the services they won't succeed ...

>

> So we need to limit the numbers of persons served and give them the

> right

> kind of interventions ...

>

> And show a high rate of success in a far quicker time frame (3-5 grade

> levels a year) And also the extensive use of accommodations in both

> training

> and in test taking ...

>

> So ... Political persons will be more likely to support the model

> and give

> more resources to expand the availability of the successful

> resource ...

>

> I am a strong supporter of this last approach .... We have seen

> that most of

> the others approaches have extensively failed, despite showing a few

> successes here and there ... And if adult ed is to survive it needs to

> change the model ...

>

> It is said in the Talmud that if you save one soul you save the

> universe ...

> And on a personal level ... It may feel that way to someone devoted

> as a

> tutor to work with one person ... And that may be fine for that one

> individual ...

>

> But programs do not live in that kind of a world ... We are

> dependent upon

> public resources and we are forced to show quicker and real

> success, and how

> it improve employment outcomes  ... Waiting 8 years for a person to

> pass the

> GED or to get to the 10 grade reading level is not what the public

> wants

> ... Or wants to fund ...

>

> So ... My answer to you should not be surprising ... Since I

> approach it not

> as an individual teacher or a tutor, who sees their role in the

> process as

> only a teacher or tutor of one person ,,,,  but as a pragmatic person

> looking for ways and means to help adult ed to survive and be

> successful ---

> because it is so important ...

>

> One final point is that teachers and tutors can no longer look at

> themselves

> as only a teacher or tutor with a focus only on one student or one

> classroom, but as a part of a team that needs all people working

> together

> help make adult ed successful for many people ... Until teacher and

> tutors

> really see themselves as part of that bigger picture ... It would

> seem that

> the elements will be working against each other - and that is the

> perfect

> recipe for failure.

>

> thanks

>

>

>

>

> Glenn Young

> 505 East Braddock Rd # 608

> Alexandria VA 22314

> 703-684-1750

> gyoungxlt at comcast.net

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Laurie

> Anson

> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:14 PM

> To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

> Subject: Re: [LearningDisabilities] Practicalities

>

> Glenn

>

> I was interested to see the responses to my listing.

>

> Just a little more information - the latest literacy testing of my

> student

> shows a reading improvement to a level of 5.6 from 2.0 over 3

> years. So,

> while there are a lot of obstacles and while we still struggle for an

> approach to improve her numeracy, I am far from giving up - and

> very far

> from disposing of her in favor of someone who is easier to work with.

>

> I took on a responsibility to help her so far as I am able. I am

> disappointed that academics and politics are deemed more important and

> discussable than strategies for success for real people. She may

> not be

> qualified as disabled under the governmental definitions - but

> then, I am

> not teaching a definition, I am teaching a person.

>

> Laurie

>

> On Feb 24, 2006, at 12:56 AM, Glenn Young wrote:

>

>> Laurie

>>

>> OK ... I can be the pessimist, and the pragmatist ... As well as

>> anyone ...

>> I have fought for years against using the "highly successful adult"

>> as a

>> model for how to address LD issues ... One of my lines in this is

>> that

>> "you can't generalize from the outlier" and the highly successful

>> persons with LD are often the outlier (this concept of outliers is

>> from the use of the bell curve etc ... And standard deviations  ...

>> Where roughly 2/3s of all people fit under the curve with what is

>> called one standard deviation from the mean ... And roughly 92 per

>> cent fits under 1 1/2 standard deviations ...

>>

>> Well it sounds like your student is roughly 3-4 or more standard

>> deviations from the mean on the lack of ability/success side, an

>> outlier if there ever was one ...  And everything has been tired

>> including accommodations and assistive technology and nothing is

>> working ... The answer may be to move on ... And stop trying to fix

>> something that can't be fixed and put your energy into something more

>> productive ... With greater prospect of success. You can't generalize

>> about anything from this person ...You keep calling the unique

>> ---  So

>> no generalized interventions can be offered ....

>>

>> Yes, I know this sound bad, and heartless and it not politically

>> correct or something that a tutor/teacher want to hear ... But it is

>> possible that it is really the right answer ...

>>

>> There are many many people who are so profoundly impacted and so

>> profoundly lacking in skills and abilities ... That they will

>> never be

>> competitive or able to gain enough skills  --- so the question is ...

>> If after a great deal of effort and appropriate supports ... This

>> person is still not successful ... Well, what is going on?  Yes they

>> may get emotional support from someone like you ... But in the end

>> it's a no win process for you ... You get more and more drained and

>> they live on false hopes given from you, and you get burned out ...

>>

>> Remember the classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing

>> over and over and expecting different results ... If you are doing

>> things over and over with this person ... And you are expecting

>> something different ... Are you fitting into that definition of

>> insanity? ... (remember I am not saying give up quickly ... And

>> have a

>> rush to judgment ... But it sounds like you're way beyond this point

>> with this person)

>>

>> One of the big things we need to learn is that the myth of "everyone

>> can read" is simply not true ... And that everyone can succeed is

>> also

>> not true ... So if this is the case ... We need to put our limited

>> time and resources helping those how have a chance of success, rather

>> than endless working with someone who has continually shown that they

>> will not move much if at all ...

>> And work with them to get SSI or some other support ...

>>

>> Remember the definition of a person with a disability as far as the

>> ADA goes

>> --- Not for SSI or Special ED but as an adult in an adult

>> setting ....

>> The qualified individual (for protection under the ADA) is an

>> individual with a disability who Can perform the essentials functions

>> of the task with our without accommodations ... If this person is not

>> succeeding with accommodations ... They would not be considered a

>> qualified individual ...

>> --- they may have very severe cognitive impairments ... But not be

>> covered under the ADA concepts as a person with a disability ...

>>

>> It is heart breaking and very emotional ... But it is a cold fact ...

>>

>> When all has failed and continue to fail .. Time to more on.

>>

>>

>>

>> Glenn Young

>> 505 East Braddock Rd # 608

>> Alexandria VA 22314

>> 703-684-1750

>> gyoungxlt at comcast.net

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov

>> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Laurie

>> Anson

>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:57 AM

>> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov

>> Subject: [LearningDisabilities] Practicalities

>>

>> Hello all -

>>

>> I have been following the recent discussions with much interest and

>> - a

>> letdown feeling. This is all very interesting and inspiring and

>> educational

>> - and doesn't give me any help at all with the adult I am tutoring.

>> I have

>> one of many adults who were pushed through school with the end result

>> of ~ 2nd grade reading level and some uncertainty about how to count

>> (no skill at all in basic math facts.) So what do I do with an adult

>> with a) learning disabilities of an unspecified sort I am unable to

>> learn because she doesn't know and no records are available to us and

>> b) brain trauma from physical abuse as a child and c) a life with a

>> wonderful guardian who is increasingly frail and worried about her

>> future ability to survive?

>>

>> I go with the practicalities of the moment, provide the immediate

>> needs and model correct social behavior. I search unceasingly for

>> any,

>> ANY information that might help me with this one unique person.

>> My mentors are not those academically trained in LD. My husband has

>> been intensely involved in Assistive Technology for many years now.

>> There is much to read out there about LD and yet - none of it is any

>> help for this one person. Our literacy program cannot evaluate each

>> student, so each tutor must grope for ways to reach these people.

>>

>> And that is what it comes down to - the individuals who desperately

>> want to learn and don't have the resources to help them. Not to

>> mention the tutors who desperately want to teach and can find few

>> resources to help them!

>>

>> Any suggestions?

>>

>> Laurie

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