Hello Andrea,

You say:

> If you are using a brain scan to see where a person is processing

> words, it is IMPOSSIBLE to see at first if  the person is the victim

> (yes) of poor teaching or has a real disability.  (I hope I'm not

> overstating this.)  Post scanning should give you that information.


Most of research into the causes of dyslexia and/or LD - in fact all the 
research I have seen - fails to take into account the essential environment 
factor of how the person was taught in the first place.  And, if you are 
correct, it is impossible in a brain scan to see at first if the person is a 
victim of poor teaching or has a real disability.   I don't know what you 
mean by "post scanning" or how it would give you that information.  Do you 
have a reference to the research?

My own theory is that good phonics teaching can develop the pathways in the 
brain that allow rapid decoding of words, and thence fluent reading.  My 
theory is most strongly supported by the 7-year Clackmannanshire study, in 
which all 300 out of 300 pupils were taught, aged 4+, to read by synthetic 
phonics, and their average reading age, by age 11, was 3 years ahead of the 
norm.  There were no non-readers!  However, in that study, a group of 
"pupils at risk" was identified, and they were given special attention to 
ensure they did not lag behind the other pupils.  This suggests that 
dyslexia and LD can make it more difficult for a person to develop the 
necessary pathways (i.e. this is their "disability"), but with good phonics 
teaching (and synthetic phonics seems to be the best), those pathways CAN be 
developed.  However unfortunately nobody has done any brain scans on the 
pupils to identify any differences among them, and compare the scans with 
poor readers from similar schools.  I would love to see research done on the 
effect of teaching method on the brain.  Any volunteers on this list to get 
the research going?  Anybody know of research already done?

Cheers from Chiswick,

John

John Nissen
Cloudworld Ltd - http://www.cloudworld.co.uk
maker of the assistive reader, WordAloud.
Try WordAloud with synthetic phonics:
http://www.cloudworld.co.uk/teaching-synthetic-phonics.htm
Tel: +44 208 742 3170  Fax: +44 208 742 0202
Email: info at cloudworld.co.uk



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrea Wilder" <andreawilder at comcast.net>
To: <szach at hcpl.net>; "The Learning Disabilities Discussion List" 
<learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 12:49 AM
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 729] Re: one-size-fits-all methodology



> OK, let me toss my two cents back in this ring.

>

> I got my master's in the LD field years ago, and a lot has changed.

> BUT even then we said:  teach to the STRENGTH , remediate the WEAKNESS.

>   There are many types of brain anomalies which affect reading, we are

> only talking about 2 hear.(!)

>

> A difficulty matching sound to symbol affects the majority of poor

> readers.  The problem is in not being able to discriminate between some

> sounds.  The visual problem is  like what I stated in my next to last

> email--a lag time in cells that process images.  many fewer have this

> problem.  BUT you can imagine  the difficulties with students  who have

> both!!!  there's a company that specializes in slowing down the sound

> production so  children can hear ALL the sounds, but while this helps

> their hearing, it doesn't transfer to their reading.

>

> It is possible to compensate for each problem--you can retrain the

> brain, and that apparently is what has happened in the sound/symbol

> side.  I think I remember that  the right side of the brain takes over,

> but I am a little hazy on this.

>

> If you are using a brain scan to see where a person is processing

> words, it is IMPOSSIBLE to see at first if  the person is the victim

> (yes) of poor teaching or has a real disability.  (I hope I'm not

> overstating this.)  Post scanning should give you that information.

> One way to work with the problem of sound/symbol is to change beginning

> and final consonants, then the middle vowel, perhaps  using colored

> letters so the units you are working on pop out.    (Blachman)  After

> regular single syllable words are mastered, then multi syllable words

> which break down into single syllable units can be mastered.  The point

> here is to go from the MOST REGULAR to the LEAST REGULAR.  You have to

> know the structure of English to work this way.  The Wilson program is

> often mentioned here, but it doesn't include meaning, as far as I

> know--SERIOUSLY consider meaning...I  know they do sentences.

>

>  Some words have  multiple meanings, and this is useful.  EXPAND THE

> STUDENT'S VOCABULARY  while you are teaching the words.  Benita

> Blachman does this, and a woman who works at Tufts in Medford, whose

> name I can't remember now--it will pop up.

>

> I promised many months ago that I  would post here the sequence that

> Blachman uses, I haven't yet.

>

> Yes, RAN is a predictor  of  dyslexia;  again, I haven't got all the

> info at my fingertips, perhaps someone else out there does.

>

> Memory--short or long--the more memory "systems" you use, the greater

> the retention.  On this list serv maybe a year?  year and a  half?

> ago, a teacher shared one of her methods:  for a student who couldn't

> remember any other way, she associated letters  with foods.  Now that

> is an inventive teacher.

>

> I want to add another note here--a LOT of federal money was put into

> the phonemic sound/symbol research because the people who were doing it

> got publicity, got more money, got the publicity, etc.  We now seem to

> be coming back to the visual difficulties, and money is now going

> there.  More of this last research is done in Canada, the UK,

> Australia.

>

> I've put a lot about Blachman in here;  well, she's good.  Laurie

> Cestnick is one of the  people for the visual problems--she does

> research, works  with kids in her lab. The Tufts researcher is Maryanne

> Wolf.

>

> There is a lot to know.  In the dyslexia field much is made of famous

> people who have dyslexia;  I am sure there are lots of non-famous

> people who have it too,

>

> Andrea

>

> On Oct 26, 2006, at 5:48 PM, Steve Zach wrote:

>

>> I think this is a very important discussion.  Thank you all for

>> continuing

>> it.  If dyslexia accounts for 80 percent of people identified as

>> learning

>> disabled, according to the Shaywitz article cited earlier, I think this

>> discussion should take place year-round to talk about various

>> specifics of

>> how dyslexic adults learn to read -- from the perspective of any

>> methodology.  I feel all of the perspectives aired recently have been

>> helpful.

>>

>> To my understanding, dyslexia only affects the processing of sounds in

>> language, not the processing of visual information (according to IDA's

>> definition at www.interdys.org).  The question that the list has been

>> discussing seems to be, should an instructor attempt to compensate for

>> this

>> disability by teaching in a way that does not necessarily involve

>> sounds, or

>> by helping dyslexic students learn to process sounds in a way that

>> those of

>> us without dyslexia didn't need to employ, such as reading controlled

>> texts

>> only?

>>

>> A question I have about the first approach (if used for all words, not

>> just

>> for phonetically irregular ones) is, isn't it really asking students to

>> memorize words not so much by sight, but as a sequence of letters?  I

>> can

>> see a word like "book" having a "look and feel" in terms of its overall

>> appearance -- maybe imagining two eyes peering out between the b and k

>> --

>> but how would one go about establishing a way to remember pot, dot,

>> hot,

>> bat, pat, hat and hundreds of similar words that will come up?  Even

>> though

>> good readers recognize these and thousands of other words by sight, I

>> don't

>> think we came to such a capability, as we were first learning, by

>> drawing

>> upon an image of the word in print itself.  A mental image of the

>> object, as

>> opposed to the words in print, wouldn't be enough -- you wouldn't know

>> what

>> image to call up until you could read the word.

>>

>> However, even if blending sounds is the skill we use to identify most

>> words

>> as we are first learning to read, as I believe now, I do think meaning

>> and

>> memory are important in moving from the blending skill to the sight

>> recognition that leads to fluency later on.

>>

>> I would like to learn more about the role of rapid naming ability in

>> learning to read.  The lack of such an ability is frequently

>> associated with

>> dyslexia, I think.  It seems like that difficulty would present

>> problems for

>> either approach to teaching reading.  In addition, is there research on

>> short term memory that would be relevant?

>>

>> Steve Zach

>> Harris County Public Library

>> Houston, TX

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov

>> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Muro,

>> Andres

>> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:02 PM

>> To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

>> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 724] Re: one-size-fits-all methodology

>>

>> If rapid phonemic decoding is the only way that adults read, as some

>> suggested, then, Alan, you are an impossibility.

>>

>> I believe that most people learn, as Andrea suggests, both phonemically

>> and visually. Visual and phonemic passages function in most people.

>> However, as Andrea suggests, the barrier from the first three basic

>> stages of reading acquisition to the most advanced stages have to do

>> with exposure to rich and varied print, as Carol Chomsky suggests. So,

>> it is not dwelling in phonemes that lead to the advanced stages of

>> reading, but extensive exposure to lots of print in multiple forms.

>> Most

>> children and adults will adapt their personal styles to the print,

>> probably combining a little of both. Just focusing on the basics,

>> especially with academically and economically disadvantaged families is

>> a tremendous disservice, since opportunities for exposure to a variety

>> of literature are limited.

>>

>> With regards to LD people, it is important to understand the type of

>> disability before implementing a plan. If dyslexics cannot process

>> sounds properly, then, the only methodology is to teach words visually.

>> Obviously this can work, as is the case with Alan and another

>> participant in this group that did, in fact stated that he learned

>> visually. If dyslexia affects the visual processing of language, then a

>> phonemic approach will work best. If diagnosing the disability is not

>> possible, then combining approaches, rather than, favoring only one, is

>> the best practice. In either case, reading must always include

>> systematic exposure to rich and varied print from the very beginning.

>> As

>> I said before, focusing on the basics only is very detrimental to

>> everyone.

>>

>> Andres

>>

>>

>>

>>

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>>

>

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