Susan--

How do you know that the researcher didn't test the transfer to reading?

As I recall, use of nonsense words is an excellent way for testing  
decoding skills.  No?

Andrea


On Nov 30, 2006, at 12:00 PM, Susan Jones wrote:


> I have noticed with extreme frustration that so much of the research on

> programs like LMB, which I have used effectively and *seen* generalize

> well to reading, doesn't test that transfer.  I have trouble arguing

> that a program is effective when the post-test measures how well

> students can sound out nonsense words.  It's been my experience that

> yes, indeedy, they've also learned to read better - but I would have

> thunk that if the researchers tested it, they'd find the same thing.

>

> No  coincidence, I suspect, that I've always used the

> intensive-decoding programs **with** lots of application to reading and

> teaching the transfer of the task, too.

>

> Susan Jones

> Academic Development Specialist

> Academic Development Center

> Parkland College

> Champaign, IL  61821

> sujones at parkland.edu

> Webmastress,

> http://www.resourceroom.net

> http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com

>

>

>>>> "Kohring, Aaron M" <akohring at utk.edu> 11/30/2006 9:12 AM >>>

> Andrea,

>

> I wonder if the MIT researcher's study focused on the same issue I've

> seen in some classrooms- where the concentration is on the decoding

> and

> is not contextualized.  In other words, students spend lots of time

> decoding words out of context and not connecting it back to real text

> and building comprehension.

> ??

> Aaron

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea

> Wilder

> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:24 PM

> To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 782] Re: A view of learning

> disabilitiesfromaconsultant's prespective

>

>

> All--

>

> I need to clear something up. I know about Lindamood-Bell techniques.

> I

> have listened to a researcher here at MIT who ran a study one summer,

> at

> the request of the company that makes Lindamood-Bell materials, or has

> a

> hand in their distribution. The finding was that students increased in

> their ability to distinguish individual sounds, but this increase did

> not generalize to reading. Any reactions to this? I believe the

> researcher, absolutely, but in what ways does the program increase

> literacy skills in children? Any reactions from the field?

> Observations?

>

>

> Thanks.

>

> Andrea

>

>

> On Nov 29, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Lucille Cuttler wrote:

>

>

> 	May I suggest that the right question is to ask what teaching

> approaches have been used thus far to remediate comprehension

> difficulties?  Does the student know how to ask questions about the

> material?  Is the obhjective to make a diagnosis merely for the sake

> of

> diagnosis?  Or is the objective to improve comprehension skills.  If

> the

> latter, then you will find a search of catalogs from Academic Therapy

> and EPS.  Qualified tutors trained and certified in Orton-Gillingham

> and

> Lindamood Bell will be helpful.  Lucille Cuttler

>

> 		-----Original Message-----

> 		From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of maureen

> 		Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:09 PM

> 		To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

> 		Subject: [LearningDisabilities 778] Re: A view of

> learning disabilities fromaconsultant's prespective

>

> 		Thank you for your reply.  It was helpful and did

> answer

> some of my questions.

> 		I have an additional question for all of you out there.

> Does anyone know of standardized test which will identify a reading

> comprehension problem which is extreme but does not show up on the

> "typical" tests.  My son scores at grade level on most tests because

> he

> can process and integrate small chunks of information.  I need to show

> that he has a problem with integrating, processing, and therefore

> comprehending information which is in more "real life" situations,

> such

> as reading a book of any kind.  He cannot complete an assignment that

> is

> just two pages long because although he can "read" the words very

> well,

> he cannot interpret what he's read, find the themes, etc.  If anyone

> knows of such a test, please let me know.  His neuropsychologist is

> looking for such a measure too.

> 		Thanks,

> 		Maureen

>

> 			----- Original Message -----

> 			From: Judith Sinclair

> 			To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List ;

> RKenyon721 at aol.com

> 			Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:53 AM

> 			Subject: [LearningDisabilities 777] A view of

> learning disabilities from aconsultant's prespective

>

> 			Hello, Miriam, Josh, Maureen, and all members

> of

> this wonderful list:

> 			

> 			I could not help but be impressed with the

> personal stories you have shared about your own experiences with

> learning disabilities, and your sensitive descriptions of inherent

> problems and possible solutions.  For many years I have worked with

> individuals with learning disabilities as an educational consultant

> and

> advocate, and continue to do so today as part of my professional

> activities.  Consequently, I have learned a great deal about the

> effect

> of learning disabilities from people who have them, including how it

> affects their lives and the lives of those around them.  In essence,

> the

> effect leaves no one out-not the members of the affected individual's

> family, school system, or community.  The inherent issues and

> ramifications are often complex.  So to help, here are just a few

> things

> I would like to share, if you have a moment.

> 			

> 			1.  From my own observation, many learning

> disabled people go through most if not all of their school and career

> lives never knowing that they are learning disabled.  This occurs

> often

> because of their ability to compensate, that is, to adjust their

> thoughts and behaviors to social and other needs in their everyday

> lives

> so that the problem(s) is obscured.  For example, a child may not be

> able to read, but will pretend to read, thus risking the attendant

> poor

> grades.  An adolescent with an undiagnosed hearing loss may effect a

> certain stance, not out of style but in an effort to hear better.  An

> adult may see him or herself as a "slow reader," yet for a variety of

> reasons not be consciously aware of an actual disability.

> 			

> 			2. What may appear at first to be an

> individual's learning disability may in reality be some other kind of

> learning difficulty, or it may be that the person has a learning

> disability as well as some other mental condition.  For an accurate

> diagnosis, the individual's condition must fit the accepted criteria

> and

> characteristics for this diagnosis (see the Diagnostic and Statistical

> Manual of Mental Disorders for the exact criteria).  Students may be

> delayed in learning for other reasons, including environmental.  For

> example, children suffering from abuse are unable to process

> information

> efficiently, yet often display signs indicating "special needs" or a

> learning disability.

> 			

> 			3.  Many people who are diagnosed as learning

> disabled fail to get a complete report of their true condition, thus

> limiting their chances for a full life.  For example, an individual

> may

> be diagnosed with a reading problem, yet in the interests of time

> and/or

> money and/or facilities the examiner fails to notice/test for a

> hearing

> loss, as well.  This situation appears to be most prevalent with the

> assessment of children, who often are unaware of an additional

> disability or too reticent to report it.

> 			

> 			4.  In my experience, learning disabilities are

> not transient in nature but permanent, in that while they may be

> addressed early they never really go away.  Left untreated and without

> adequate personal compensation, the condition may worsen.

> Consequently,

> the earlier and more complete the assessment and diagnosis, the

> better.

> However, not only early assessment but constant monitoring and

> management are essential.  Developmental changes along an individual's

> life path must be considered at each appropriate time, and revised or

> possibly new solutions examined to prevent regression.

> 			

> 			5. Learning disabilities are not simply a

> cognitive manifestation, as is sometimes thought, for evidence of the

> problem(s) presents in the learning disabled person's social,

> emotional,

> psychological, and spiritual expressions, even though the individual's

> learning disability problems have been diagnosed and theoretically

> dealt

> with.  In sum, learning disabilities affect every aspect of an

> affected

> individual's life.  In my opinion, it is always a good idea to have a

> learning disabled person evaluated fully for the presence/absence of

> other problems, and treatment available for all additional diagnoses,

> and for all aspects of the presentation (see below).

> 			

> 			6.  In my experience, the frustration

> encountered by almost all learning-disabled people who have average or

> above-average intelligence as they attempt to reach their life and

> career goals is incalculable.  This diagnosis along with the constant

> need for compensation and adjustment serves so many times to keep the

> idea of the disabilities or the disabilities themselves at the

> forefront

> of the affected person's mind.  Consider, for example, the individual

> with a reading LD.  While he/she may have been diagnosed early and

> treated successfully, the core of the problem itself remains part of

> the

> person's life.  The person may know how to adjust for their diagnosed

> dyslexia, but is still fully aware that he or she has this condition

> and

> must constantly compensate for it.  This awareness sometimes prevents

> people from following their dreams and pursuing their goals, because

> they have in mind that despite all measures of relief they are somehow

> tainted.  This is especially true in a society that prizes perfection

> and excellence above all else.

> 			

> 			7.  There are various treatments available for

> people with learning disabilities.  These include the relatively

> well-known and accepted forms of therapy, medication, family and

> community support, and school intervention.  I have also found that

> people with learning disabilities profit from the experience of

> working

> one of one with a learning disabilities professional who understands

> the

> full implication of the diagnosis, and can work with the individual to

> set impressive yet realistic goals, and implement manageable

> strategies

> to reach them.  For example, a young person with a reading disability

> who wants to become a lawyer needs to know that there are provisions

> for

> learning disabled people now in some law schools that will provide the

> services and structure required of a law program.  This person also

> needs to become acquainted with lawyers who have succeeded and who are

> also in some way learning disabled.

> 			

> 			8.  Most K-12 schools today typically provide

> some learning disability services in the form of classes, tutorials,

> and

> so on, depending on the individual student's diagnosed needs.  And

> most

> colleges and universities offer similar services, although I have

> found

> that this assistance varies from place to place across the board.

> However, despite laws to the contrary, there remain at all levels

> institutions that seem to flatly deny the existence of any condition

> that could be called a learning disability.  Indeed, these

> institutions

> insist that the diagnosed student is instead lazy, disorganized,

> mentally disturbed, and so on.  This is an unfortunate condition, and

> if

> encountered requires delicate management and/or outside help.

> 			

> 			9.  Most K-12 schools also offer some form of

> learning disability assessment.  Herein lies the rub, as they say.

> The

> diagnosis provided may or may not be accurate and complete, two

> factors

> that must be present if proper and adequate treatment is to be given.

> All too often I have seen the diagnosis of a student left to someone

> who

> was not properly trained, lacked cultural and social sensitivities,

> was

> not fully aware of what the label "LD" meant to the student now and in

> the future, and/or had certain biases toward segments of the

> population.

> Parent have often complained that the school provided diagnostics were

> unfair, incomplete, and or inaccurate, and it has been just as often

> my

> unfortunate experience to find that the parents were right.

> 			

> 			What are the options?  If the parents can

> afford

> it, there are outside testing facilities for students of all ages that

> can provide appropriate, complete, and accurate assessments of a

> student's level and category of LD.  It is important to find out in

> advance, however, how reliable these institutions are, and whether

> they

> are fairly priced as viewed by the wider community.  If the parents

> cannot pay much or perhaps at all, they are left to the mercies of

> outside agencies, both for-and non-profit.  Here again the outcomes

> may

> be on the mark or less than desirable.  I have seen both good and poor

> results.  But testing is merely part of the equation, and only

> initiates

> years of work ahead.  Sometimes parents can proceed on their own

> successfully, and sometimes not; it depends on their work schedules,

> attitudes, other demands, personal problems and health, for example.

> 			

> 			Hiring individual help may be a good idea, if,

> and I emphasize the "if," a qualified educational consultant and

> advocate can be found.  Both of these characteristics must be present:

> the person you select should be an experienced and educated

> professional, one who has worked extensively in the school system, and

> knows how the system really works.  In addition to knowing and

> providing

> the precise method of approach to the schools to obtain the desired

> goal, the consultant must also have in their heart the ability to

> champion the rights of the student.  I say this out of my own

> experience

> over many years, as I witnessed both good and bad consultants and

> advocates hired by concerned, often desperate parents seeking help for

> their children.  The good ones worked wonders.  They were

> knowledgeable,

> articulate, analytical, and prepared.  The bad ones caused havoc and

> pain.  They were short-sighted, lacked enough education and

> preparation,

> and let the school system run rampant over the case.

> 			

> 			What should you look for in a good educational

> consultant and advocate?  As I began above, both the ability to

> perceive

> the real problems in each case, and not just the ones provided by the

> school system and family, and the real solutions to each case, that

> is,

> what in realistic terms can be done within and without the system to

> help each child.  Each case is as varied as the colors of the rainbow,

> a

> good consultant knows, and each case requires full concentration,

> adequate education and preparation, professional manner, adequate

> time,

> and a firm, fixed agenda.

> 			

> 			In terms of fees, I have seen perfectly decent

> people working for as little as $50 an hour, and I have seen people

> who

> should never have been allowed near the case charging $400 an hour and

> more.  There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the pricing, and often

> it

> is what the community will bear.  Here in the Washington, DC metro

> area

> most consultants and/or advocates charge from $100 to almost $1000 per

> session, with more for special services, depending on what they

> advertise they can do for you and your youngster.  Amazing but true.

> 			

> 			What you want to look for is someone you like

> and trust, first, so that the time you and your child spend with them

> will be production.  You also want someone who is educated in the

> field

> and can prove it, and someone who will spend time with you as a

> parent,

> your child as a student, you and your child as a team, the student's

> school, the school's administration, the school system administration,

> the many meetings that are inevitable, available resources and

> alternatives, available treatments and options, and access to

> potentially necessary extended help.  It is also a good idea to know

> if

> the person works with any lawyers who specialized in education law,

> "just in case."  While you may or may not need, ultimately, to seek

> counsel, it is always a good idea to have "on tap" a name or two of

> law

> firms that you have already checked out.

> 			

> 			I would recommend that you explore all of this

> before deciding anything.  I would also suggest that you try to work

> out

> an agreement on an hourly basis, with a letter of contract that lets

> you

> out of the relationship if you find out that the person is not working

> out.  If they insist on a retainer larger than 5 hours of their time

> on

> an hourly basis, or if they ask for all the money up front, or any

> other

> large money arrangement, after deciding whether their reasons were

> sound, I would perhaps look elsewhere.  There are many very good

> educational consultants and advocates who do have fair rates and who

> are

> more than happy to assist you.

> 			

> 			I hope this information is of value to you, and

> that you will contact me with any questions you might have.

> 			

> 			All best,

> 			

> 			Dr. Judith Peyton Sinclair

> 			

> 			

> 			Contact information:

> 			

> 			Judith Peyton Sinclair, PhD

> 			Cognitive Psychologist and Educator

> 			Life and Career Management Services Consultant

> 			Telephone 202-364-3893

> 			www.sinclairsystem.com

> 			j-p-sinclair at worldnet.att.net

> 			

>

> 	

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