Well, the research report would indicate that the improvements were made
in the reading of nonsense words.  

Yes, there is a nice correlation between being able to read nonsense
words and decoding.

However, one of the issues that anti-direct-instruction folks make is
that decoding is not reading  (and have this unsupported belief that
there are countless fluent decoders with poor comprehension skills,
because all they were taught is decoding; I keep looking for these
students and have only found a handful!).  

  They are right, of course.  Decoding is a necessary subskill of
reading.  

  HOwever, if the researchers only tested decoding, then they didn't
"test reading."  Hence my frustration.  

  When we emphasized our decoding instruction when we added sixth grade
to the school, and taught those students in groups of 4-5 (instead of
tutorials), we tested in both decoding and comprehension.  We were very
pleased (but not really surprised) that the comprehension scores went up
as much as, if not more than, the decoding skills.  This, of course,
probably had a whole lot to do with the appropriate but challenging
other educational experiences in literature and history and science that
would improve student language skills and comprehension (and a general
tendency to have a whole lot more confidence about the tests, too). 

   However, in most of the studies I read, if the program teaches
decoding, they only test decoding - and often only nonsense words, which
the anti-DI folks find very soap-boxable.   I can fully understand how,
to the reasonably skeptic mind, this is simply "teaching to a test" and
doesn't necessarily mean that students end up being able to pass eighth
grade English or do well on the ACTs or understand their newspaper.  

 and yes, I always find myself asking "who's making the money here?"  

Susan Jones
Academic Development Specialist
Academic Development Center
Parkland College
Champaign, IL  61821
sujones at parkland.edu
Webmastress,
http://www.resourceroom.net
http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com



>>> Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> 11/30/2006 12:31 PM >>>

Susan--

How do you know that the researcher didn't test the transfer to
reading?

As I recall, use of nonsense words is an excellent way for testing  
decoding skills.  No?

Andrea


On Nov 30, 2006, at 12:00 PM, Susan Jones wrote:


> I have noticed with extreme frustration that so much of the research

on

> programs like LMB, which I have used effectively and *seen*

generalize

> well to reading, doesn't test that transfer.  I have trouble arguing

> that a program is effective when the post-test measures how well

> students can sound out nonsense words.  It's been my experience that

> yes, indeedy, they've also learned to read better - but I would have

> thunk that if the researchers tested it, they'd find the same thing.

>

> No  coincidence, I suspect, that I've always used the

> intensive-decoding programs **with** lots of application to reading

and

> teaching the transfer of the task, too.

>

> Susan Jones

> Academic Development Specialist

> Academic Development Center

> Parkland College

> Champaign, IL  61821

> sujones at parkland.edu 

> Webmastress,

> http://www.resourceroom.net 

> http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com 

>

>

>>>> "Kohring, Aaron M" <akohring at utk.edu> 11/30/2006 9:12 AM >>>

> Andrea,

>

> I wonder if the MIT researcher's study focused on the same issue

I've

> seen in some classrooms- where the concentration is on the decoding

> and

> is not contextualized.  In other words, students spend lots of time

> decoding words out of context and not connecting it back to real

text

> and building comprehension.

> ??

> Aaron

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov 

> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea

> Wilder

> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:24 PM

> To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 782] Re: A view of learning

> disabilitiesfromaconsultant's prespective

>

>

> All--

>

> I need to clear something up. I know about Lindamood-Bell

techniques.

> I

> have listened to a researcher here at MIT who ran a study one

summer,

> at

> the request of the company that makes Lindamood-Bell materials, or

has

> a

> hand in their distribution. The finding was that students increased

in

> their ability to distinguish individual sounds, but this increase

did

> not generalize to reading. Any reactions to this? I believe the

> researcher, absolutely, but in what ways does the program increase

> literacy skills in children? Any reactions from the field?

> Observations?

>

>

> Thanks.

>

> Andrea

>

>

> On Nov 29, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Lucille Cuttler wrote:

>

>

> 	May I suggest that the right question is to ask what teaching

> approaches have been used thus far to remediate comprehension

> difficulties?  Does the student know how to ask questions about the

> material?  Is the obhjective to make a diagnosis merely for the sake

> of

> diagnosis?  Or is the objective to improve comprehension skills.  If

> the

> latter, then you will find a search of catalogs from Academic

Therapy

> and EPS.  Qualified tutors trained and certified in Orton-Gillingham

> and

> Lindamood Bell will be helpful.  Lucille Cuttler

>

> 		-----Original Message-----

> 		From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov 

> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of maureen

> 		Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:09 PM

> 		To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

> 		Subject: [LearningDisabilities 778] Re: A view of

> learning disabilities fromaconsultant's prespective

>

> 		Thank you for your reply.  It was helpful and did

> answer

> some of my questions.

> 		I have an additional question for all of you out there.

> Does anyone know of standardized test which will identify a reading

> comprehension problem which is extreme but does not show up on the

> "typical" tests.  My son scores at grade level on most tests because

> he

> can process and integrate small chunks of information.  I need to

show

> that he has a problem with integrating, processing, and therefore

> comprehending information which is in more "real life" situations,

> such

> as reading a book of any kind.  He cannot complete an assignment

that

> is

> just two pages long because although he can "read" the words very

> well,

> he cannot interpret what he's read, find the themes, etc.  If anyone

> knows of such a test, please let me know.  His neuropsychologist is

> looking for such a measure too.

> 		Thanks,

> 		Maureen

>

> 			----- Original Message -----

> 			From: Judith Sinclair

> 			To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List ;

> RKenyon721 at aol.com 

> 			Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:53 AM

> 			Subject: [LearningDisabilities 777] A view of

> learning disabilities from aconsultant's prespective

>

> 			Hello, Miriam, Josh, Maureen, and all members

> of

> this wonderful list:

> 			

> 			I could not help but be impressed with the

> personal stories you have shared about your own experiences with

> learning disabilities, and your sensitive descriptions of inherent

> problems and possible solutions.  For many years I have worked with

> individuals with learning disabilities as an educational consultant

> and

> advocate, and continue to do so today as part of my professional

> activities.  Consequently, I have learned a great deal about the

> effect

> of learning disabilities from people who have them, including how it

> affects their lives and the lives of those around them.  In essence,

> the

> effect leaves no one out-not the members of the affected

individual's

> family, school system, or community.  The inherent issues and

> ramifications are often complex.  So to help, here are just a few

> things

> I would like to share, if you have a moment.

> 			

> 			1.  From my own observation, many learning

> disabled people go through most if not all of their school and

career

> lives never knowing that they are learning disabled.  This occurs

> often

> because of their ability to compensate, that is, to adjust their

> thoughts and behaviors to social and other needs in their everyday

> lives

> so that the problem(s) is obscured.  For example, a child may not be

> able to read, but will pretend to read, thus risking the attendant

> poor

> grades.  An adolescent with an undiagnosed hearing loss may effect a

> certain stance, not out of style but in an effort to hear better. 

An

> adult may see him or herself as a "slow reader," yet for a variety

of

> reasons not be consciously aware of an actual disability.

> 			

> 			2. What may appear at first to be an

> individual's learning disability may in reality be some other kind

of

> learning difficulty, or it may be that the person has a learning

> disability as well as some other mental condition.  For an accurate

> diagnosis, the individual's condition must fit the accepted criteria

> and

> characteristics for this diagnosis (see the Diagnostic and

Statistical

> Manual of Mental Disorders for the exact criteria).  Students may be

> delayed in learning for other reasons, including environmental.  For

> example, children suffering from abuse are unable to process

> information

> efficiently, yet often display signs indicating "special needs" or a

> learning disability.

> 			

> 			3.  Many people who are diagnosed as learning

> disabled fail to get a complete report of their true condition, thus

> limiting their chances for a full life.  For example, an individual

> may

> be diagnosed with a reading problem, yet in the interests of time

> and/or

> money and/or facilities the examiner fails to notice/test for a

> hearing

> loss, as well.  This situation appears to be most prevalent with the

> assessment of children, who often are unaware of an additional

> disability or too reticent to report it.

> 			

> 			4.  In my experience, learning disabilities are

> not transient in nature but permanent, in that while they may be

> addressed early they never really go away.  Left untreated and

without

> adequate personal compensation, the condition may worsen.

> Consequently,

> the earlier and more complete the assessment and diagnosis, the

> better.

> However, not only early assessment but constant monitoring and

> management are essential.  Developmental changes along an

individual's

> life path must be considered at each appropriate time, and revised

or

> possibly new solutions examined to prevent regression.

> 			

> 			5. Learning disabilities are not simply a

> cognitive manifestation, as is sometimes thought, for evidence of

the

> problem(s) presents in the learning disabled person's social,

> emotional,

> psychological, and spiritual expressions, even though the

individual's

> learning disability problems have been diagnosed and theoretically

> dealt

> with.  In sum, learning disabilities affect every aspect of an

> affected

> individual's life.  In my opinion, it is always a good idea to have

a

> learning disabled person evaluated fully for the presence/absence of

> other problems, and treatment available for all additional

diagnoses,

> and for all aspects of the presentation (see below).

> 			

> 			6.  In my experience, the frustration

> encountered by almost all learning-disabled people who have average

or

> above-average intelligence as they attempt to reach their life and

> career goals is incalculable.  This diagnosis along with the

constant

> need for compensation and adjustment serves so many times to keep

the

> idea of the disabilities or the disabilities themselves at the

> forefront

> of the affected person's mind.  Consider, for example, the

individual

> with a reading LD.  While he/she may have been diagnosed early and

> treated successfully, the core of the problem itself remains part of

> the

> person's life.  The person may know how to adjust for their

diagnosed

> dyslexia, but is still fully aware that he or she has this condition

> and

> must constantly compensate for it.  This awareness sometimes

prevents

> people from following their dreams and pursuing their goals, because

> they have in mind that despite all measures of relief they are

somehow

> tainted.  This is especially true in a society that prizes

perfection

> and excellence above all else.

> 			

> 			7.  There are various treatments available for

> people with learning disabilities.  These include the relatively

> well-known and accepted forms of therapy, medication, family and

> community support, and school intervention.  I have also found that

> people with learning disabilities profit from the experience of

> working

> one of one with a learning disabilities professional who understands

> the

> full implication of the diagnosis, and can work with the individual

to

> set impressive yet realistic goals, and implement manageable

> strategies

> to reach them.  For example, a young person with a reading

disability

> who wants to become a lawyer needs to know that there are provisions

> for

> learning disabled people now in some law schools that will provide

the

> services and structure required of a law program.  This person also

> needs to become acquainted with lawyers who have succeeded and who

are

> also in some way learning disabled.

> 			

> 			8.  Most K-12 schools today typically provide

> some learning disability services in the form of classes, tutorials,

> and

> so on, depending on the individual student's diagnosed needs.  And

> most

> colleges and universities offer similar services, although I have

> found

> that this assistance varies from place to place across the board.

> However, despite laws to the contrary, there remain at all levels

> institutions that seem to flatly deny the existence of any condition

> that could be called a learning disability.  Indeed, these

> institutions

> insist that the diagnosed student is instead lazy, disorganized,

> mentally disturbed, and so on.  This is an unfortunate condition,

and

> if

> encountered requires delicate management and/or outside help.

> 			

> 			9.  Most K-12 schools also offer some form of

> learning disability assessment.  Herein lies the rub, as they say.

> The

> diagnosis provided may or may not be accurate and complete, two

> factors

> that must be present if proper and adequate treatment is to be

given.

> All too often I have seen the diagnosis of a student left to someone

> who

> was not properly trained, lacked cultural and social sensitivities,

> was

> not fully aware of what the label "LD" meant to the student now and

in

> the future, and/or had certain biases toward segments of the

> population.

> Parent have often complained that the school provided diagnostics

were

> unfair, incomplete, and or inaccurate, and it has been just as often

> my

> unfortunate experience to find that the parents were right.

> 			

> 			What are the options?  If the parents can

> afford

> it, there are outside testing facilities for students of all ages

that

> can provide appropriate, complete, and accurate assessments of a

> student's level and category of LD.  It is important to find out in

> advance, however, how reliable these institutions are, and whether

> they

> are fairly priced as viewed by the wider community.  If the parents

> cannot pay much or perhaps at all, they are left to the mercies of

> outside agencies, both for-and non-profit.  Here again the outcomes

> may

> be on the mark or less than desirable.  I have seen both good and

poor

> results.  But testing is merely part of the equation, and only

> initiates

> years of work ahead.  Sometimes parents can proceed on their own

> successfully, and sometimes not; it depends on their work schedules,

> attitudes, other demands, personal problems and health, for example.

> 			

> 			Hiring individual help may be a good idea, if,

> and I emphasize the "if," a qualified educational consultant and

> advocate can be found.  Both of these characteristics must be

present:

> the person you select should be an experienced and educated

> professional, one who has worked extensively in the school system,

and

> knows how the system really works.  In addition to knowing and

> providing

> the precise method of approach to the schools to obtain the desired

> goal, the consultant must also have in their heart the ability to

> champion the rights of the student.  I say this out of my own

> experience

> over many years, as I witnessed both good and bad consultants and

> advocates hired by concerned, often desperate parents seeking help

for

> their children.  The good ones worked wonders.  They were

> knowledgeable,

> articulate, analytical, and prepared.  The bad ones caused havoc and

> pain.  They were short-sighted, lacked enough education and

> preparation,

> and let the school system run rampant over the case.

> 			

> 			What should you look for in a good educational

> consultant and advocate?  As I began above, both the ability to

> perceive

> the real problems in each case, and not just the ones provided by

the

> school system and family, and the real solutions to each case, that

> is,

> what in realistic terms can be done within and without the system to

> help each child.  Each case is as varied as the colors of the

rainbow,

> a

> good consultant knows, and each case requires full concentration,

> adequate education and preparation, professional manner, adequate

> time,

> and a firm, fixed agenda.

> 			

> 			In terms of fees, I have seen perfectly decent

> people working for as little as $50 an hour, and I have seen people

> who

> should never have been allowed near the case charging $400 an hour

and

> more.  There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the pricing, and

often

> it

> is what the community will bear.  Here in the Washington, DC metro

> area

> most consultants and/or advocates charge from $100 to almost $1000

per

> session, with more for special services, depending on what they

> advertise they can do for you and your youngster.  Amazing but true.

> 			

> 			What you want to look for is someone you like

> and trust, first, so that the time you and your child spend with

them

> will be production.  You also want someone who is educated in the

> field

> and can prove it, and someone who will spend time with you as a

> parent,

> your child as a student, you and your child as a team, the student's

> school, the school's administration, the school system

administration,

> the many meetings that are inevitable, available resources and

> alternatives, available treatments and options, and access to

> potentially necessary extended help.  It is also a good idea to know

> if

> the person works with any lawyers who specialized in education law,

> "just in case."  While you may or may not need, ultimately, to seek

> counsel, it is always a good idea to have "on tap" a name or two of

> law

> firms that you have already checked out.

> 			

> 			I would recommend that you explore all of this

> before deciding anything.  I would also suggest that you try to work

> out

> an agreement on an hourly basis, with a letter of contract that lets

> you

> out of the relationship if you find out that the person is not

working

> out.  If they insist on a retainer larger than 5 hours of their time

> on

> an hourly basis, or if they ask for all the money up front, or any

> other

> large money arrangement, after deciding whether their reasons were

> sound, I would perhaps look elsewhere.  There are many very good

> educational consultants and advocates who do have fair rates and who

> are

> more than happy to assist you.

> 			

> 			I hope this information is of value to you, and

> that you will contact me with any questions you might have.

> 			

> 			All best,

> 			

> 			Dr. Judith Peyton Sinclair

> 			

> 			

> 			Contact information:

> 			

> 			Judith Peyton Sinclair, PhD

> 			Cognitive Psychologist and Educator

> 			Life and Career Management Services Consultant

> 			Telephone 202-364-3893

> 			www.sinclairsystem.com 

> 			j-p-sinclair at worldnet.att.net 

> 			

>

> 	

> ----------------------------------------------------

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