Amen.  It's time to mobilize for action.  Thanks for putting these words
out.  Clearly the answer is exactly what you say: a well trained teacher.
Experience helps too because we know that when it comes to specific language
learning differences, the best way is to tailor instruction to match the
individual learner.  When will the university departments of education get
it?

Lucille Cuttler
  -----Original Message-----
  From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Maureen Carro
  Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:19 PM
  To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
  Subject: [LearningDisabilities 791] Re: A view of
learningdisabilitiesfromaconsultant's prespective


  Andrea,
  I agree...the programs with the best marketing strategies seem to be the
ones that get all the attention. I agree also that teacher training is where
the money should be spent. The programs without a skilled and knowledgeable
teacher are ineffective, while the skilled and knowledgeable teacher can use
any materials effectively. Amen!


  On Nov 30, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Andrea Wilder wrote:


    Hi there,

    I haven't absorbed all of what you said, so let me take a little piece
of it. The program ran for one summer, there were no reading gains. The
funder withdrew support, that is, DID NOT WANT any further research done.

    With all these programs, I ask: WHO IS MAKING THE MONEY?

    My feeling: put the knowledge in the teacher, not in the program.

    Andrea



    On Nov 30, 2006, at 11:18 AM, Maureen Carro wrote:


      Thank you Andrea, for the information about the Lindamood Bell
research. I knew their programs were involved in some research, but had not
heard of any findings. The one you are referring to sounds like the LIPS
program which is used to remediate phonemic awareness, phonics, improve
decoding/encoding skills etc. I know the periods of intervention on these
research projects is not too long, and therefore , I suppose it is
understandable that improvement is seen in specific areas, but may not show
a "generalization" to reading after such a short time. In my own personal
experience, it takes years sometimes before "everything kicks in" for fluent
reading with good comprehension. I like the LIPS program for its "phonemic
awareness components", but shift to other methods once that underlying skill
begins to develop. The exercises I do are with sounds only, no letters.
Mental manipulation of sounds is an underlying skill shown to be fundamental
to reading text. Lots of games here!

      Lindamood's Visualization and Verbalization program is the one that is
used as an intervention for reading COMPREHENSION, specifically to improve
visualization. I am wondering if that has been used in any reseaerch. Anyone
out there know?
      In my opinion, however, there are other factors that may be
interfering with a student's ability to comprehend. With a HS student, such
as Maureen's son ( subject of another discussion topic), I would certainly
investigate that along with other things that may be impeding his
comprehension. He appears to already be a good decoder. I often use Google
Images to seek out pictures of people and objects in a historical setting so
students might better visualize how the characters might look, dress, etc.
and what specific objects look like that they have never seen. I call this
"clarification" and teach them to do it for themselves when they read rather
than just "blitzing" by. HS students need to learn how they can help
themselves! The Lindamood V_V program is very structured, and may be a good
start for some. There are a number of other strategies to enhance
comprehension.

      Reading is such a complex task! This is a good reason why a good
diagnostic assessment is necessary to pinpoint areas of deficit, but ALWAYS,
the goal is reading text to enjoy and learn something new! That takes
COMPREHENSION. I try in every session to close with at least a short
literary piece even if I am mostly working on decoding (because that is the
deficit). The student needs to know WHY they are doing all this!! I find
that many students who are poor decoders still comprehend very well what is
read to them!

      On Nov 30, 2006, at 7:12 AM, Kohring, Aaron M wrote:


        Andrea,

        I wonder if the MIT researcher's study focused on the same issue
I've seen in some classrooms- where the concentration is on the decoding and
is not contextualized.  In other words, students spend lots of time decoding
words out of context and not connecting it back to real text and building
comprehension.
        ??
        Aaron


        From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder
        Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:24 PM
        To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
        Subject: [LearningDisabilities 782] Re: A view of learning
disabilitiesfromaconsultant's prespective

        All--

        I need to clear something up. I know about Lindamood-Bell
techniques. I have listened to a researcher here at MIT who ran a study one
summer, at the request of the company that makes Lindamood-Bell materials,
or has a hand in their distribution. The finding was that students increased
in their ability to distinguish individual sounds, but this increase did not
generalize to reading. Any reactions to this? I believe the researcher,
absolutely, but in what ways does the program increase literacy skills in
children? Any reactions from the field? Observations?

        Thanks.

        Andrea


        On Nov 29, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Lucille Cuttler wrote:


          May I suggest that the right question is to ask what teaching
approaches have been used thus far to remediate comprehension difficulties?
Does the student know how to ask questions about the material?  Is the
obhjective to make a diagnosis merely for the sake of diagnosis?  Or is the
objective to improve comprehension skills.  If the latter, then you will
find a search of catalogs from Academic Therapy and EPS.  Qualified tutors
trained and certified in Orton-Gillingham and Lindamood Bell will be
helpful.  Lucille Cuttler

            -----Original Message-----
            From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of maureen
            Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 5:09 PM
            To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
            Subject: [LearningDisabilities 778] Re: A view of learning
disabilities fromaconsultant's prespective

            Thank you for your reply.  It was helpful and did answer some of
my questions.
            I have an additional question for all of you out there.  Does
anyone know of standardized test which will identify a reading comprehension
problem which is extreme but does not show up on the "typical" tests.  My
son scores at grade level on most tests because he can process and integrate
small chunks of information.  I need to show that he has a problem with
integrating, processing, and therefore comprehending information which is in
more "real life" situations, such as reading a book of any kind.  He cannot
complete an assignment that is just two pages long because although he can
"read" the words very well, he cannot interpret what he's read, find the
themes, etc.  If anyone knows of such a test, please let me know.  His
neuropsychologist is looking for such a measure too.
            Thanks,
            Maureen

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Judith Sinclair
              To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List ;
RKenyon721 at aol.com
              Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:53 AM
              Subject: [LearningDisabilities 777] A view of learning
disabilities from aconsultant's prespective

              Hello, Miriam, Josh, Maureen, and all members of this
wonderful list:

              I could not help but be impressed with the personal stories
you have shared about your own experiences with learning disabilities, and
your sensitive descriptions of inherent problems and possible solutions.
For many years I have worked with individuals with learning disabilities as
an educational consultant and advocate, and continue to do so today as part
of my professional activities.  Consequently, I have learned a great deal
about the effect of learning disabilities from people who have them,
including how it affects their lives and the lives of those around them.  In
essence, the effect leaves no one out—not the members of the affected
individual’s family, school system, or community.  The inherent issues and
ramifications are often complex.  So to help, here are just a few things I
would like to share, if you have a moment.

              1.  From my own observation, many learning disabled people go
through most if not all of their school and career lives never knowing that
they are learning disabled.  This occurs often because of their ability to
compensate, that is, to adjust their thoughts and behaviors to social and
other needs in their everyday lives so that the problem(s) is obscured.  For
example, a child may not be able to read, but will pretend to read, thus
risking the attendant poor grades.  An adolescent with an undiagnosed
hearing loss may effect a certain stance, not out of style but in an effort
to hear better.  An adult may see him or herself as a “slow reader,” yet for
a variety of reasons not be consciously aware of an actual disability.

              2. What may appear at first to be an individual’s learning
disability may in reality be some other kind of learning difficulty, or it
may be that the person has a learning disability as well as some other
mental condition.  For an accurate diagnosis, the individual’s condition
must fit the accepted criteria and characteristics for this diagnosis (see
the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders for the exact
criteria).  Students may be delayed in learning for other reasons, including
environmental.  For example, children suffering from abuse are unable to
process information efficiently, yet often display signs indicating “special
needs” or a learning disability.

              3.  Many people who are diagnosed as learning disabled fail to
get a complete report of their true condition, thus limiting their chances
for a full life.  For example, an individual may be diagnosed with a reading
problem, yet in the interests of time and/or money and/or facilities the
examiner fails to notice/test for a hearing loss, as well.  This situation
appears to be most prevalent with the assessment of children, who often are
unaware of an additional disability or too reticent to report it.

              4.  In my experience, learning disabilities are not transient
in nature but permanent, in that while they may be addressed early they
never really go away.  Left untreated and without adequate personal
compensation, the condition may worsen.  Consequently, the earlier and more
complete the assessment and diagnosis, the better.  However, not only early
assessment but constant monitoring and management are essential.
Developmental changes along an individual’s life path must be considered at
each appropriate time, and revised or possibly new solutions examined to
prevent regression.

              5. Learning disabilities are not simply a cognitive
manifestation, as is sometimes thought, for evidence of the problem(s)
presents in the learning disabled person’s social, emotional, psychological,
and spiritual expressions, even though the individual’s learning disability
problems have been diagnosed and theoretically dealt with.  In sum, learning
disabilities affect every aspect of an affected individual’s life.  In my
opinion, it is always a good idea to have a learning disabled person
evaluated fully for the presence/absence of other problems, and treatment
available for all additional diagnoses, and for all aspects of the
presentation (see below).

              6.  In my experience, the frustration encountered by almost
all learning-disabled people who have average or above-average intelligence
as they attempt to reach their life and career goals is incalculable.  This
diagnosis along with the constant need for compensation and adjustment
serves so many times to keep the idea of the disabilities or the
disabilities themselves at the forefront of the affected person’s mind.
Consider, for example, the individual with a reading LD.  While he/she may
have been diagnosed early and treated successfully, the core of the problem
itself remains part of the person’s life.  The person may know how to adjust
for their diagnosed dyslexia, but is still fully aware that he or she has
this condition and must constantly compensate for it.  This awareness
sometimes prevents people from following their dreams and pursuing their
goals, because they have in mind that despite all measures of relief they
are somehow tainted.  This is especially true in a society that prizes
perfection and excellence above all else.

              7.  There are various treatments available for people with
learning disabilities.  These include the relatively well-known and accepted
forms of therapy, medication, family and community support, and school
intervention.  I have also found that people with learning disabilities
profit from the experience of working one of one with a learning
disabilities professional who understands the full implication of the
diagnosis, and can work with the individual to set impressive yet realistic
goals, and implement manageable strategies to reach them.  For example, a
young person with a reading disability who wants to become a lawyer needs to
know that there are provisions for learning disabled people now in some law
schools that will provide the services and structure required of a law
program.  This person also needs to become acquainted with lawyers who have
succeeded and who are also in some way learning disabled.

              8.  Most K-12 schools today typically provide some learning
disability services in the form of classes, tutorials, and so on, depending
on the individual student’s diagnosed needs.  And most colleges and
universities offer similar services, although I have found that this
assistance varies from place to place across the board.  However, despite
laws to the contrary, there remain at all levels institutions that seem to
flatly deny the existence of any condition that could be called a learning
disability.  Indeed, these institutions insist that the diagnosed student is
instead lazy, disorganized, mentally disturbed, and so on.  This is an
unfortunate condition, and if encountered requires delicate management
and/or outside help.

              9.  Most K-12 schools also offer some form of learning
disability assessment.  Herein lies the rub, as they say.  The diagnosis
provided may or may not be accurate and complete, two factors that must be
present if proper and adequate treatment is to be given.  All too often I
have seen the diagnosis of a student left to someone who was not properly
trained, lacked cultural and social sensitivities, was not fully aware of
what the label “LD” meant to the student now and in the future, and/or had
certain biases toward segments of the population.  Parent have often
complained that the school provided diagnostics were unfair, incomplete, and
or inaccurate, and it has been just as often my unfortunate experience to
find that the parents were right.

              What are the options?  If the parents can afford it, there are
outside testing facilities for students of all ages that can provide
appropriate, complete, and accurate assessments of a student’s level and
category of LD.  It is important to find out in advance, however, how
reliable these institutions are, and whether they are fairly priced as
viewed by the wider community.  If the parents cannot pay much or perhaps at
all, they are left to the mercies of outside agencies, both for-and
non-profit.  Here again the outcomes may be on the mark or less than
desirable.  I have seen both good and poor results.  But testing is merely
part of the equation, and only initiates years of work ahead.  Sometimes
parents can proceed on their own successfully, and sometimes not; it depends
on their work schedules, attitudes, other demands, personal problems and
health, for example.

              Hiring individual help may be a good idea, if, and I emphasize
the “if,” a qualified educational consultant and advocate can be found.
Both of these characteristics must be present: the person you select should
be an experienced and educated professional, one who has worked extensively
in the school system, and knows how the system really works.  In addition to
knowing and providing the precise method of approach to the schools to
obtain the desired goal, the consultant must also have in their heart the
ability to champion the rights of the student.  I say this out of my own
experience over many years, as I witnessed both good and bad consultants and
advocates hired by concerned, often desperate parents seeking help for their
children.  The good ones worked wonders.  They were knowledgeable,
articulate, analytical, and prepared.  The bad ones caused havoc and pain.
They were short-sighted, lacked enough education and preparation, and let
the school system run rampant over the case.

              What should you look for in a good educational consultant and
advocate?  As I began above, both the ability to perceive the real problems
in each case, and not just the ones provided by the school system and
family, and the real solutions to each case, that is, what in realistic
terms can be done within and without the system to help each child.  Each
case is as varied as the colors of the rainbow, a good consultant knows, and
each case requires full concentration, adequate education and preparation,
professional manner, adequate time, and a firm, fixed agenda.

              In terms of fees, I have seen perfectly decent people working
for as little as $50 an hour, and I have seen people who should never have
been allowed near the case charging $400 an hour and more.  There seems to
be no rhyme or reason to the pricing, and often it is what the community
will bear.  Here in the Washington, DC metro area most consultants and/or
advocates charge from $100 to almost $1000 per session, with more for
special services, depending on what they advertise they can do for you and
your youngster.  Amazing but true.

              What you want to look for is someone you like and trust,
first, so that the time you and your child spend with them will be
production.  You also want someone who is educated in the field and can
prove it, and someone who will spend time with you as a parent, your child
as a student, you and your child as a team, the student’s school, the school
’s administration, the school system administration, the many meetings that
are inevitable, available resources and alternatives, available treatments
and options, and access to potentially necessary extended help.  It is also
a good idea to know if the person works with any lawyers who specialized in
education law, “just in case.”  While you may or may not need, ultimately,
to seek counsel, it is always a good idea to have “on tap” a name or two of
law firms that you have already checked out.

              I would recommend that you explore all of this before deciding
anything.  I would also suggest that you try to work out an agreement on an
hourly basis, with a letter of contract that lets you out of the
relationship if you find out that the person is not working out.  If they
insist on a retainer larger than 5 hours of their time on an hourly basis,
or if they ask for all the money up front, or any other large money
arrangement, after deciding whether their reasons were sound, I would
perhaps look elsewhere.  There are many very good educational consultants
and advocates who do have fair rates and who are more than happy to assist
you.

              I hope this information is of value to you, and that you will
contact me with any questions you might have.

              All best,

              Dr. Judith Peyton Sinclair


              Contact information:

              Judith Peyton Sinclair, PhD
              Cognitive Psychologist and Educator
              Life and Career Management Services Consultant
              Telephone 202-364-3893
              www.sinclairsystem.com
              j-p-sinclair at worldnet.att.net


              ----------------------------------------------------
              National Institute for Literacy
              Learning Disabilities mailing list
              LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
              To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go
to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
              Message sent to
mlavallee at charter.net.----------------------------------------------------Na
tional Institute for Literacy

          Learning Disabilities mailing list
          LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
          To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
          Message sent to
andreawilder at comcast.net.---------------------------------------------------
-

        National Institute for Literacy
        Learning Disabilities mailing list
        LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
        To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
        Message sent to
MCARRO at lmi.net.----------------------------------------------------

      National Institute for Literacy
      Learning Disabilities mailing list
      LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
      To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
      Message sent to
andreawilder at comcast.net.---------------------------------------------------
-

    National Institute for Literacy
    Learning Disabilities mailing list
    LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
    To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
    Message sent to MCARRO at lmi.net.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/attachments/20061201/95cc4760/attachment.html