Tom,

I have read  your emails for quite a while now.  How do you get away  
from testing requirements?  Could you outline more about your school?   
I agree with your way of working with  students and my guess is that  
many teachers do also.

Andrea

On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:54 PM, John Warrior wrote:


> Hello again,

>

> I brought up the issue of LD students that are English language learner

> (ELL) students. In addition to some very fragmented statistics about

> learning disabilities from around the world, I just finished a book  

> that was

> published by UNESCO, "Children Out Of School: Measuring Exclusion from

> Primary Education." This publication is free if you order or view on  

> their

> web site. The data that UNESCO and UNICEF complied about participation  

> in

> primary education by children around the world can be helpful. The main

> reason I feel that it is helpful is for a student to be identified as  

> having

> any learning difficulties or disabilities they need to have been in the

> classroom. I try hard not to label or profile my students, but I have  

> found

> that learning about the education system from where they came from can  

> be

> very insightful. These facts start to provide a more detailed picture  

> of the

> socioeconomic factors that influenced the growth and development of our

> students prior to when they entered our classroom.

>

> Have a happy day,

>

> John Warrior

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of

> learningdisabilities-request at nifl.gov

> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:00 AM

> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov

> Subject: LearningDisabilities Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

>

> Send LearningDisabilities mailing list submissions to

> 	learningdisabilities at nifl.gov

>

> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

> 	http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities

> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

> 	learningdisabilities-request at nifl.gov

>

> You can reach the person managing the list at

> 	learningdisabilities-owner at nifl.gov

>

> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

> than "Re: Contents of LearningDisabilities digest..."

>

>

> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. [LearningDisabilities 896] Re: [SPAM?] Re: CROSS POSTED -

>       There is	No Silver Bullet (Christy Breihan)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:40:30 -0600

> From: "Christy Breihan" <breihanc at matc.edu>

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 896] Re: [SPAM?] Re: CROSS POSTED -

> 	There is	No Silver Bullet

> To: <learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>, <mag at sover.net>

> Message-ID: <45C25E4E0200008A00017A67 at GWISE1.matc.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

>

> Doing something that doesn't help for however long or at your own pace

> still doesn't help. It's the individualized part that can result in

> progress, but only if instructors have the understanding and the

> resources to provide appropriate learning opportunities. That's often

> not the case, whether in individualized alternative schools or in

> special needs classes.I agree that education should strive to help all

> people learn what they need and want to know, and that may require a  

> lot

> of different strategies. Difficulties are only disabilities if

> traditional methods don't result in progress AND the target learning is

> deemed necessary by society. If dance or hair styling were considered

> essential, a lot of teachers would be in "special needs" programs.

> Chris Breihan, ABE Instructor

>

>>>> mag <mag at sover.net> 01/31/07 2:57 PM >>>

> Amen, Tom!

>

> Woods wrote:

>

>> I appreciate John Warrior's post. We find about 50% of our students in

>> corrections have a previous history of having received special

> education

>> services when they were in public school. The most frequent diagnoses

>> are emotional disturbance, learning disability and other health, which

>> usually denotes attention deficit disorder.

>>

>> Despite the high numbers of these disabilities, only a very few, those

>> with the most disabling conditions, are actually found to be eligible

>> for special education in our school. This is because our regular

>> education program offers small classes and individualized self-paced

>> instruction. There are no grades and no failure. Students just work at

>> something until they get it. Earning credit for a course is dependent

> on

>> what a student knows and is able to do, not on the time spent in  

>> class.

>

>> All students, save those with the most serious disabilities are able  

>> to

>

>> make progress in this model of education. The vast majority of those

>> with disabilities do not need special education.

>>

>> One vital ingredient in the recipe to correct our education system's

>> shortcomings is to stop viewing the student as being the one with the

>> problem. It is the school system that has the problem. We our bound by

>> educational practices and traditions that may well be impossible to

>> change, but if we could create schools that are self-paced and

>> individualized, the large numbers of special ed students would  

>> suddenly

>

>> drop to much more manageable numbers.

>>

>> I would have to concur with Mr. Warrior's observations about  

>> ridiculous

>

>> IEPs. They seem to be mostly irrelevent, a contrivance to satisfy

>> paperwork requirements rather than to actually try to help the  

>> student.

>

>> I would take it one step further than Mr. Warrior and argue that

>> evaluations, eligibility determinations, and possibly even some

>> diagnoses are also contrivances. They are contrived in order to  

>> explain

>

>> why a student doesn't learn in the same way that all the other  

>> students

>

>> learn. They conveniently make the case that there is something wrong

>> with the student that prevents him or her from progressing like all  

>> the

>

>> others. The student has a disability; the student needs treatment.

>>

>> Ungraded, self-paced, individualized instruction usually removes the

>> adverse effect caused by a disability an the need for special

> education.

>> If our present system could just stop its cookie-cutter approach and

>> trying to bang square pegs into round holes everyone would be a lot

>> better off. We could appreciate the differences in students rather  

>> than

>

>> label them as disabilities. The sad part is, I don't think public

>> education is willing or able to make this quantum leap.

>>

>> Tom Woods, Special Educator

>> Community High School of Vermont

>> .

>>

>> RKenyon721 at aol.com wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>> Hi,

>>>

>>> I wanted to share this very thought-provoking message that was

>>> recently posted on the Poverty, Race, Women, and Literacy.  I welcome

>>> any comments you might have that would be shared with the poster.

>>>

>>> Thanks,

>>>

>>> Rochelle

>>>

>>> Rochelle Kenyon

>>> Moderator, LINCS Learning Disabilities Discussion List

>>> Center for Literacy Studies at the University of Tennessee

>>> RKenyon721 at aol.com <mailto:RKenyon721 at aol.com>

>>>

>>> To post a message:

>>> Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov <mailto:Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>

>>>

>>> To subscribe:

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/LearningDisabilities

>>>

>>> To read archived messages:

>>> http://www.nifl.gov/linc/discussions/list_archives.html

>>>

>>>

>>> Hello to everyone,

>>>

>>> I wanted to add a few more comments to this discussion after my

>>> original posting. There is no "silver bullet" and there is no quick

>>> fix to many of the short-comings that we see in our classrooms

>>> everyday. In countless seminars and classes, I have received that  

>>> list

>

>>> of successful people who had dyslexia or other learning disabilities.

>>> There are usually about one hundred names on there. However, every

>>> year I see more than that fail in our school systems because their

>>> problems are not diagnosed in the first place or they are

>>> misdiagnosed. One article I recently read cites the increasing number

> of

>>> Hispanic prisoners in our penal system. Corresponding to this it is

>>> estimated that 30% to 50% of them have at least one undiagnosed LD.

>>> This is over three times the national average. Another study from the

>>> UK estimates that over 15,000 people would not be incarcerated every

>>> year if they were correctly diagnosed and treated for their learning

>>> disabilities.

>>>

>>> Some will argue that our children are over-diagnosed and

>>> over-medicated for

>>> learning disabilities. However, the alternative to this can be found

>>> when you research UNESCO's statistics on learning disabilities around

>>> the world. Some countries have no data, others put all LD students

>>> into one category and others have detailed reports.

>>>

>>> So, what are our choices? As I see it we need to screen everyone that

>>> we suspect of having a learning disability that is affecting their

>>> behavior and/ or their academic performance. These students should

>>> have complete access to treatment, to include medication, counseling

>>> and remedial education. These diagnosis should also be reevaluated

>>> regularly. Ineffective treatment methods can be replaced with

>>> alternatives and diagnosis can be reassessed if new symptoms arise.

>>> However, our greatest failure to our society is to ignore the problem

>>> or say, "It couldn't happen to you, you're a..."

>>>

>>> One failure that we do have in the system is the IEP. It is

>>> ridiculous. The comments are vague, generalized or in "teacher-speak"

>>> which h in the end means little to nothing for the student. Instead  

>>> of

>

>>> providing the appropriate guidelines and adjustment which will help

>>> the student perform at their best or at grade-level, they are often

>>> the new vehicle of social promotion. I have not seen an IEP which is

>>> focused on the terminal learning objectives that a high school

>>> graduate is expected to meet, this is one of

>>> the areas we seem to have failed in miserably.

>>>

>>> In my opinion, over-diagnosing 1000 students is better than missing

>>> one student. It is admirable that some famous people succeeded  

>>> despite

>

>>> adversity, but we don't see the list of names of those who failed. It

>>> can give us hope, but not a reason to avoid taking action. Also, no

>>> stigma of being LD in school is worse than the stigma of being an

>>> ex-con, which it looks like many of our undiagnosed students are

>>> headed. Let's ere on the side of caution and use all of the resources

>

>>> that are available, so that

>>> the young student can realize their dreams and learn to cope with

>>> their problems and not lead a life of characterized by failure, crime

>>> and poverty.

>>>

>>> "John steps down off of his soap box"

>>>

>>> Everyone have a happy day,

>>>

>>> John Warrior

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 

>>> ---

>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> National Institute for Literacy

>>> Learning Disabilities mailing list

>>> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov

>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities

>>> Message sent to WOODSNH at isp.com.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Learning Disabilities mailing list

>> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities

>

> End of LearningDisabilities Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2

> ***************************************************

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities

>