The need for accommodations does not go away nor does a learning disability become "cured."  By teaching differently we can sometimes correct or remediate but this is always case by case.  What usually happens in my experience is successful students with LD learn to independently use the accommodations that work for them,  work twice as hard as everyone else in many areas, and find the right vocational and lifestyle matches for the individual strengths.  
Evelyn

>>> "Arlene Nelson" <anelson at oltn.odl.state.ok.us> 4/16/2007 10:19 AM >>>

In reading most of the emails that have been posted in the last few days, I 
find that I agree with Robin.  I have been working in this field for the 
last 20 years..and in programs from Montana to  California to Oklahoma.  I 
have seen what the K12 policies and procedures have done across the board 
and really folks..it doesn't look like it's working all that well because we 
still have an overwhelming amount of students that are dropping out, failing 
to be successful in their educational attempts, work situations and 
sometimes even their life situations.  If the K through 12 model was working 
so well, then why do we still have so many folks who need us????

Seems like what isn't working is our ability to see that we need to do some 
things differently, not continue to roll out the same old same old...I 
challenge all of you to really look at your students and how you serve them. 
Are they able to be successful in their learning, their work, their life???? 
I think not.  Where  have they been before coming to you?  In school. K 
through 12. What services have they received while in school.  The LD 
diagnosis, the accommodations, the what evers...have these worked for these 
students????  No. Not if they are needing your services.  If they had, then 
they would not need us.  We need to look at new, alternative, and even maybe 
"different" ways of addressing their problems and their. We need to be able 
to give them the power to achieve on all levels, not continue down the same 
road they have already traveled.  It didn't work folks....so what are we 
going to do about it now?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <robinschwarz1 at aol.com>
To: <learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 7:56 PM
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1038] Re: Fwd: Re: ASSISTANCE PLEASE--reading 
and vision issues



> Yes,--this is exactly what programs find when they do just what you

> do--incorporate visual stress screening into the intake process--it is

> very simple to do and catches difficulties these adults virtually never

> knew they had.

>

> My philosophy about all this is that it behooves us educators to look

> at all possible causes of learning difficulty to help learners who have

> struggled.  I have no problem with less traditional ideas about what

> causes people to struggle. I have worked with such learners way too

> long to limit any intervention to the narrow parameters of LD.    Robin

> Lovrien Schwarz

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rmvalenti at forsythtech.edu 

> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov 

> Sent: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 9:52 AM

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1029] Fwd: Re: ASSISTANCE

> PLEASE--reading and vision issues

>

>   I agree with Robin and have found that many of our students who have

> been

> diagnosed with reading problems, actually have visual stress issues

> that are

> alleviated with colored overlays. We have incorporated visual stress

> screenings

> in our intake process and over 46% of our students find that reading

> with

> overlays stabilizes how they see the page.

>

> In cases where we did not screen before the placement test, we often

> saw a big

> discrepancy between the math and reading score (higher math than

> reading). We

> then screened for visual stress and in most of these cases we find that

> the

> student needs overlays and scored on average 3 grade levels higher

> witht the use

> of overlays.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>> <robinschwarz1 at aol.com> 04/06/07 2:35 PM >>>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com 

> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov 

> Sent: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 2:15 PM

> Subject: Re: [LearningDisabilities 1023] Re: ASSISTANCE PLEASE

>

> I have to jump into this discussion in response to Dr. Kelly's comment

> about vision. On the contrary, as Russell Smith and Arlene Nelson

> noted, certain vision issues which are not addressed in either a

> professional assessment for LD or by regular optometrists would

> definitely seem to be something to be checked in this case. Persons

> with the diverging or converging issues Arlene mentioned rarely

> recognize how much of an impact these problems have on reading fluency.

> The convergence/divergence or binocularity problems (where one must

> focus both eyes on a point and keep them focused, then move the eyes

> along a line of print) are typically not checked in an optemetric exam

> unless one requests it, oddly enough.

>

> Similarly, the visual stress problem, which colored overlays alleviate

> immediately, is something few sufferers know they have. No one asks

> them what they see when they look at a page. Nearly all people with

> visual stress will indicate that either things move or smudge, things

> flash, or they see white rivers, or they will indicate that they cannot

> read for long periods of time-( usually no more than 10-20 minutes

> maximum) without getting a headache or other physical symptoms. (For

> examples of what such a person sees, see the front page of the

> irlen.com website). Since these persons do not know they have such

> problems, they think they are simply not trying hard enough. When the

> overlays are used, they then are surprised that things do not actually

> move on the page or make their heads hurt.

>

> The reason these two vision issues should be checked BEFORE other

> diagnosis takes place is that the problems they are likely to cause

> with reading nearly always exactly mimic problems caused by dyslexia.

> Thus people who do not have dyslexia may be diagnosed with it when

> given the usual reading tests if their problems stem from visual issues

> of some kind. (In fact, I know of many such instances where this has

> happened.)

>

> One easy way to check whether the problem is vision or dyslexia is to

> have the reader read individual words on cards in large print and then

> read the same words in regular text. Readers who have either vision

> difficulty (divergence or convergence, tracking) or visual stress will

> be able to read individual words competently and will be able to

> demonstrate a knowledge and use of decoding skills, but will have

> highly dysfluent and inaccurate reading when reading text (without

> using a finger or other marker). This can be verified by having the

> reader then point to each word as she reads using a finger or a pencil

> and forcing her to read each word without trying to move ahead. Again,

> accuracy should be much higher than when reading lines of print without

> a marker.

>

> Readers with these problems typically leave off endings, guess at words

> using initial letters, mix up internal details of words, lose their

> place on a line, re-read often and drop lines (move to another line

> lower on the page). Thus such readers test at much lower grade or

> reading levels than they are actually capable of reading at because of

> accuracy --and then comprehension--issues.

>

> Dyslexic readers will make errors or read with effort no matter the

> size of print or whether words are in isolation or in text or whether

> they are using an overlay or not. Contrary to what many have come to

> think, overlays are not a "cure" for dyslexia.

>

> Since this woman is "an avid reader" but testing at 2nd grade, visual

> issues are highly likely the cause of the discrepancy. No one who

> actually READS at 2nd grade is "an avid reader"-- too much is

> unavailable to such a reader.

>

> I have done such screenings for years and years as a reading/LD

> specialist.

>

> Robin Lovrien Schwarz, M. Sp. Ed: LD

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mskelly at aecom.yu.edu 

> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov 

> Sent: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 7:19 AM

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1023] Re: ASSISTANCE PLEASE

>

> Dear Christine:  Nothing in your message indicates a particular vision

> problem.  In every case that LD is suspected, vision and hearing

> problems should be ruled out first.  If possible, it would be helpful

> to get a psychoeducational evaluation to determine the problem that

> underlies the reading difficulty.  Vision may be involved, but it is

> far more likely that language systems are involved.  As far as

> materials go, I would suggest checking out Recordings for the Blind and

> Dyslexic for books on tape.  Lexia Learning Systems has a good adult

> computer based program, although I suggest that the use of the program

> be augmented by an actual teacher who can teach the actual information

> and then use the computer for practice.  Best of luck, Mary Kelly

>

> Mary S. Kelly, PhD

> Director, Fisher Landau Center for the Treatment of LD

> Albert Einstein College of Medicine

> 1165 Morris Park Ave.

> Bronx, NY 10463

>

> At 05:57 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote:

> You might also check into her vision.  Has she been seen by a

> developmental optometrist at any point.  Converging and diverging

> issues as well as other visual problems can create many problems if not

> diagnosed.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Smith, Russell

> To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List

> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:50 PM

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1020] Re: ASSISTANCE PLEASE

>

> Has any one suggested colored overlays? Look up Irlen Syndrome

>

> Russell  L. Smith

> Education Supervisor I

> Special Education Compliance

> We have met the enemy and he is us Pogo (Walt Kelly)

> Education Supervisor I

> Special Education Compliance

> We have met the enemy and he is us Pogo (Walt Kelly)

>

>

>

>

> --------

> From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [

> mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Cimilluca,

> Christine

> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:07 AM

> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov 

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 983] ASSISTANCE PLEASE

>

> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:07 AM

> To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov 

> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 983] ASSISTANCE PLEASE

>

> I'm looking for assistance for a 23 year old mom with an LD.  She is an

> avid reader, but tests very low (2nd or 3rd grade) in reading and

> writing levels.  She would like to pursue her degree at a local

> college.

>

> Can anyone recommend workbooks, books, DVD's, etc. that she could use

> to prepare herself at home?  She's bright, motivated, works hard and is

> uncomfortable about re-entering school.

>

>     Christine

>

> Christine G. Cimilluca

> Educational and Training Coordinator

> Region IV Resource Center

> University of South Florida

> 4202 East Fowler Avenue PED214

> Tampa, Florida  33620

> Phone 813 974-2904

> FAX 813 974-2780

> www.coedu.usf.edu/regioniv/centerhome.htm 

>

> "I prefer the errors of enthusiasm to the indifference of wisdom."  --

> Anatole France

>

> --------

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities 

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities 

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities 

>

> ________________________________________________________________________

>

>

> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free

> from AOL at AOL.com.

> =0

>

>

> ________________________________________________________________________

> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free

> from AOL at AOL.com.

> =0

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities 

>

> Ronnie Valenti

> Testing Coordinator

> Forsyth Technical Community College

> 2100 Silas Creek Parkway

> Winston Salem, NC 27103

> Phone 336-734-7759

> FAX 336-734-7752

> rmvalenti at forsythtech.edu 

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities 

>

>

> ________________________________________________________________________

> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free

> from AOL at AOL.com.

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Learning Disabilities mailing list

> LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities 

> 


----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Learning Disabilities mailing list
LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov 
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities

Evelyn Brown
Academic Development Specialist
Parkland College
2400 West Bradley
Champaign, IL 61821
217.351.2587 
ebrown at parkland.edu