This is very helpful!  When LD is diagnosed under a lump title, it's even
harder for lay people/teachers to figure out what the real problems might
be.

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
Online ESOL Instructor
Prince William County Public Schools
Adult Education
P.O. Box 389
Manassas, VA 20108
work 703-791-8387
fax 703-791-8889


 -----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of
robinschwarz1 at aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 12:03 PM
To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1551] Re: IQ and LD


Katherine-- dyslexia is defined internationally as difficulty in gaining
fluency in assigning sound to symbols in the decoding process.  Many other
reading problems are lumped under the term dyslexia in this country, but the
technical difficulty is at the decoding level.

The problems you describe in your student could be the result of language
processing difficulties and/or dysgraphia, a much underrecognized difficulty
in which the person has problems putting language into writing, ranging from
the simplest form of being unable to write the letters of the alphabet, or
in putting down complete thoughts.  To my knowledge, writing on the computer
is extremely helpful for persons with these writing difficulties- it seems
to use a different connection from brain to writing than actual handwriting
does.

It is really important to recognize the impact of dysgraphia-- often people
working with these students do not understand how long and how difficult is
the process of remediating it. It is for these persons that accommodations
are gifts-- being able to use a computer or Alphasmart or even having a
scribe, being able to dictate or record answers and compositions instead of
writing them.  I have heard, in the last year, of a school that insisted
that a child with dysgraphia--who had full documentation-- still needed to
be able to write fluently to do college.  This is a fallacy.  Accommodation
would ensure that such a student could have total and constant access to
electronic means of writing.

Robin Lovrien Schwarz, M. Sp. Ed:LD
Independent Consultant in Adult ESOL/Education and Learning Difficulties







-----Original Message-----
From: Katherine G <Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
<learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:27 am
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1508] Re: IQ and LD



 "I got approximately 3 credit hours of special education training which is
required for regular education teachers."

Clearly, that is not enough!  Classroom teachers should be able to identify
candidates for child study/services and be able to make accommodations
before it takes place. For example, most teachers should know that if a
child (or adult!) is acting out, distracted, or incapable of following
directions, that child or adult should sit in front of the class or near the
teacher.  Instructions may have to be repeated and/or explained separately.
I know this sounds basic, but I have had the experience of teachers NOT
knowing this.

In college, I had the fortune of tutoring in writing many LD adults, so I
started recognizing some patterns.  For example, the severely dyslexic
students had more than just difficulty spelling.  They often could not put
sentences together.  They misused words.

Certainly, though, these manifestations could also be seen in ESOL students.
Obviously, it was easier to identify a native speaker with some kind of
learning challenge.  What I discovered, though, is I ended up providing
similar tutorial services to and using similar styles with both LD and ESL
students.  At one point, I had become "the person" admin would send ESL
students to.  I really believe these references evolved because I had worked
with so many LD students (not because I was some teaching genius LOL).

Unfortunately, when I later worked in higher education administration, I
would become frustrated with faculty who didn't understand when I told them
they needed to provide "accommodations" and/or extra help to both LD and ESL
students.  I assumed they had training and experience in these areas, but
they did not.  My (ridiculous) middle management position didn't allow me to
provide much guidance, and the school (a career school) was not in favor of
spending extra dollars on student services or teacher training in this area.
The results were of course, high failure and drop-out rates.  We see the
same thing in any educational setting.

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
Prince William County Public Schools
Adult Education
P.O. Box 389
Manassas, VA 20108
work 703-791-8387
fax 703-791-8889

-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Kim Bellerive
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:50 AM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1507] Re: IQ and LD


"I think parents and educators sometimes know there is
something wrong with their children and/or students, but they can't tell
you
WHAT is wrong."

This is the crux of the problem for me. I am trained as an elementary
school teacher which means I got approximately 3 credit hours of special
education training which is required for regular education teachers in
CT where I was certified. I seriously doubt this qualifies me to
diagnose the adult learners I interact with every day as a reading
teacher. I know something is wrong but I don't know what it is. I know
something about providing instructional accommodations but I'm doing
that to the best of my ability with a limited knowledge base. The other
difficulty I've found, at least in Maryland, is that there is a shortage
of services for adults with learning disabilities as the main focus
appears to be on children. I'm curious to learn how others face this
challenge and overcome it.

Kim Bellerive
Assistant Director
Adult Literacy and ESOL Program
Greater Homewood Community Corporation
3501 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218
Phone 410-261-3518
Fax 410-261-3506

STRENGTHENING NEIGHBORHOODS IN NORTH CENTRAL BALTIMORE
www.greaterhomewood.org



-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine G
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:54 PM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1502] Re: IQ and LD

Hi Arlyn--

Let me clarify, because I think we are talking about two different
things.
When my daughters got the psychological evaluations, I was told that
kids
with LD often had average or above average intelligence.  That's not in
the
VA description, however (which I just looked up out of curiosity).  So
there
may be some confusion on my part between the psych descriptions and the
academic descriptions.  I think this is probably common since many
parents
must get their children evaluated outside of school (via a psychiatrist)
before the school will test them for learning disabilities.  At least,
this
has been my experience in this state.

Let me also say I'm not an expert in this field. I'm a parent who also
works
in education, and I am hoping to learn more via these lists (which have
been
exceedingly helpful).  I think parents and educators sometimes know
there is
something wrong with their children and/or students, but they can't tell
you
WHAT is wrong.  That's where the diagnosing and early intervention
become so
important--so we are not allowing children to graduate without knowing
they
have a learning disability that might affect them in the future even if
it
didn't in the past.

Does any of that make sense?  : )

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt





-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Arlyn Roffman
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:15 PM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1496] IQ and LD


Hi Katherine-

IDEA 2004 describes LD as ... a disorder in one or more of the basic
psychological processes involved in understanding or in using language,
spoken or written, which may manifest itself in an imperfect ability to
listen, think, speak, read, write, spell or do mathematical
calculations.

The National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities definition is ....
LD is a general term that refers to a heterogeneous group of disorders
manifested by significant difficulties in the acquisition and use of
listening, speaking, reading, writing, reasoning, or mathematical
abilities.
These disorders are intrinsic to the individual, presumed to be due to
central nervous system dysfunction, and may occur across the life span.
Problems in self-regulatory behaviors, social perception, and social
interaction may exist with learning disabilities but do not, by
themselves,
constitute a learning disability.Although learning disabilities may
occur
concomitantly with other disabilities (e.g., sensory impairment, mental
retardation, serious emotional disturbance), or with extrinsic
influences
(such as cultural differences, insufficient or inappropriate
instruction),
they are not the result of those conditions or influences.



What does the state of Virginia say?
Arlyn


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