A bit "abstract", but the truth!!  Colleges and Universities do vary in the "total" services they have, but most do cover ADA requirements.
I understand about the frustration a student might have when they  feel that no one hears them and that those that do hear them don't really understand, but then there are those that do.  Sometimes you might just need to look.
Yesterday, I had a meeting with a 25 year old lady, who graduated with a standard high school diploma.  She has the proper documentation needed by the college that shows a full scale IQ of 80, and is the first to tell you she had a lot of help through out her education.  She was able to pass remedial reading and English at the college with accommodations, but not math.  I was able to get her a course substitution for the college math area and a waiver of the remedial math requirement, but is she going to be successful in college?  That is not for me to determine and not for any one to stop her from trying. 
Beverly


Beverly Cranmer
Coordinator of Disability Services
Broward Community College
Willis Holcombe Downtown Center
Bldg. 33 Room 114
954-201-7655
bcranmer at broward.edu

Please Note: Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written communications to or from College employees regarding College business are public records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this email communication may be subject to public disclosure.


>>> "Glenn Young" <gyoungxlt at roadrunner.com> 1/23/2008 11:22 AM >>>


Katharine 
 
The obvious solution to your statement is that persons with LD should be informed consumers and not go to the schools that do not have the services …
 
And as H L Menkin said … for every problem this is a quick and easy solution … that is completely wrong …
 
So … my easy solution may be wrong … but it has a grain of truth in it (more like a ton) … All persons need to be informed consumers … and go to places that will fit them best …  
 
So … as a general principle … when I do give advice to students with LD going to college … my advice to them is to make the first stop disabled student services … and find out about the program  and the services … and seek out feed back from existing student with LD to see if the services are real … etc .. and if its not good for persons with LD … don’t go there … find a place that is good.
 
We have come a very long way in a very short time … and while many can argue that the disabled student services programs in their given college or university are poor … well that may be true … but they are there … and there are also many colleges and universities with excellent programs …. And therefore, unlike a few decades agon, we have choices … 
 
And we need to exercise our role as consumers … and make the choices the fix our needs best … as informed consumers 
 
So that mean we really need to let students with LD know they have choices … and to help them explore the choices and reach right choices for them …
 
OK … sounds simple again … but after years of personal therapy … the thing that I say I leaned finally is that in all cases we do have in fact a number of options … and even in most cases we have some good options … what we have to learn to do is to look for the options and figure out the good options … and not just accept our “fate” as presented to us by others …
 
I feel that is one of the most pressing problems facing most persons with LD … is they have been “beaten” up so badly by the systems and all those around … they have no idea of what their options are, and even that in fact the do have options … and are usually willing to accept what is told to them is all that is available …. 
 
If we can break this chain … this feeling of no options … and instead provide persons with LD with an understanding that there are options … and often good options … then progress can be made (and with this I don’t mean lower your expectations … on the contrary … I mean figure out ways to get what you need to meet your expectations)
 
I am often so confused by people who are in “dead” towns … who say they can not find work in these towns … and I say … well move to another town … and they say … oh no … I can’t do that …. 
 
Why? I ask … well … I know this place, been here all my life  … I don’t want to go somewhere I don’t know (or the other answer is I have family here) 
 
Well … I ask … you rather stay where you know it’s not good … then take a chance on finding something better?  And I also say … go get a good job and then bring your family there …
 
But in fact most people rather “stay with the devil they know” …. And we need to work with the people with LD to be willing to go to a new place … to try other options … and not stay with the devil they know simple because that is what they know, they been treated this way all their lives … we need to teach people there are options and good options and that changing to a better option is not bad … it’s a good thing …
 
OK … this message may be a bit to abstract to get my point across … but I tried 
 
Glenn Young
CSLD
530 Auburn Ave
Buffalo NY 14222
Cell 703-864-3755
Fax 716-822-2842
website: glennyoungcsld.com



From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:01 PM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1659] Re: Response to Jon's question last week
 
"Where you stand depends on where you sit."
 
I like that.
 
From where I sit, I've worked with too many students who have failed because their LD was either not diagnosed or they were not given necessary accommodations....in postsecondary institutions.
 
I am glad adult education is working to take care of this at another level.  My primary concern is that those efforts aren't always transferring into the colleges.  Community colleges and even state colleges don't seem to have as much of an issue because there are usually specific departments that help these students transition.  But in smaller, private schools, it seems these students fall through the cracks and never even know they "fell" until it's too late.  
 
 
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.luxuriouschoices.net 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Glenn Young 
To: 'The Learning Disabilities Discussion List' 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1658] Re: Response to Jon's question last week
 
Katherine 
There is an old saying … where you stand where you sdepends upon it …. So your struggle and focus … is based on your personal experience …
 
So …. Keep on fighting … and we can support each others fights …
 
But we must always keep the broad picture of fighting for the broad LD issues …
 
 
Glenn Young
CSLD
530 Auburn Ave
Buffalo NY 14222
Cell 703-864-3755
Fax 716-822-2842
website: glennyoungcsld.com



From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nancie Payne
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 6:30 AM
To: Learningdisabilities at nifl.gov
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1656] Response to Jon's question last week
 
In response to Rochelle’s request for a response to Jon’s question:
First, I am not an attorney and do not explicitly follow the ADA/Civil Rights cases, thus I can not comment on any rulings or stipulations.  That said -- here are some thoughts about the LD policy set by the literacy agency and the college that Jon references. 
I am going to start at the end instead of the beginning.  First, it is my belief that the major reason a teacher (in the adult basic education world) would need new or updated learning disability information about a student is for purposes of receiving necessary accommodations on the GED Test, in admissions testing and/or when involved in coursework in a postsecondary institution, or on a job/work training situation.
Now that you have my bias/opinion, here’s the next element. While a learning disability is a permanent disability, there are several “glitches” if you will…
Many times, especially with the current elements of the IDEA, K-12 students are not actually diagnosed with a learning disability – only identified as “qualifying for special education services.”  Then, there are the issues around documentation done by a qualified professional.  There are no constants in the documentation of a learning disability – while many professionals follow a specific set of criteria, research shows that in practice, there are many ways of documenting this disability – some more acceptable than others.  These documentation elements lead to individuals having documentation that is inaccurate or frequently does not provide enough information to support the diagnosis. Finally, if the only documentation available was done sometime during elementary, middle, or early high school and the individual is now an adult, chances are their cognitive abilities have changed (especially if they have encountered good teachers and used strategies) and while the learning disability might still be present, the levels are different and an “adult assessment” may be important to have.
All that said, the question is whether an adult education teacher providing instruction to an individual who has/appears to have a learning disability is assisted – instructionally speaking – by documentation/diagnostic information.  In my estimation – many times not, as the documentation/diagnosis typically does not suggest what should be done; that is the types of modification or adjustments appropriate in an adult education/literacy setting. Remember, that is not to say that the documentation/diagnosis is not important if accommodations for the GED test, postsecondary or work appear to be in order. In these cases, programs that provide adult basic education (in this case literacy and pre-GED classes) certainly have a need – as advocates for the student - and hopefully believe - a responsibility - to help the student access updated or new information.  If we don’t do it who will?  If it doesn’t happen during the time the student is enrolled in the adult education program, does the lack of such create a significant barrier in passage to the next level of self-sufficiency?  In my opinion, these requests should be based again on the student’s goals/direction and the requirements/standards set by the entity/organization (e.g., GED Testing Service, the postsecondary institution, or the workplace).  
On to the next element -- It is my understanding that organizations/programs that receive federal, state or local municipality funds and are providing services to individuals who lack the resources/support to access new or updated documentation of a disability have some obligation to assist the individual.  The question is – to what level of assistance is the obligation of the organization/program?  At the very least, having information available regarding resources within the community – for example: Vocational Rehabilitation may provide assistance if the student’s primary goal is to become employed, literacy/GED is a step in that goal and a disability or the perception that there is a disability is preventing the student from achieving the goal or if the student is a welfare-to-work/TANF participant then there should be resources for disability documentation/diagnosis from that program.  These are just two instances of assistance within the system.  Each state, region and local area has a variety of options.  
Well, the subject continually evolves – perhaps others in the legal field have more substantive information from the ADA perspective.
Nancie Payne
 
 



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