Dear List,
  I could write forever about this, but I'll try to be succint:
   
  First of all, adult literacy programs are working with a very challenging population. We work with people who--for a variety of largely unresearched reasons--did not learn to read in the ways that most people were able to learn. It is unrealistic to expect that people who have struggled all their lives to learn how to read would all suddenly have an easy time of learning. 
   
  Also, what are we talking about when we talk about students achieving their ABE goals? Most people come to my program saying they want their GED. Many take years to get that. Some don't ever get a GED, but they improve their literacy levels. What is the impact on income, civic involvement, children's literacy levels if someone's reading level goes up? We don't know,  but I would sure like to find out. 
   
  Finally, why is it considered a problem if 20% drop out in the first few hours? 80% stay and 20% decide they are not ready to make the commitment now. It's like joining a gym. It's easy to sign up, but hard to work out three times a week. Also, how many of those 20% come back later when the time is right?
   
  from Bruce Carmel

Glenn Young <gyoungxlt at roadrunner.com> wrote:
  OK David ... but that's just your nature

Are there others?

Glenn Young
CSLD
530 Auburn Ave
Buffalo NY 14222
Cell 703-864-3755
Phone/Fax 716-882-2842
website: glennyoungcsld.com

-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of David J. Rosen
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:46 AM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1796] Controversial again

Glenn,

On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Glenn Young wrote:


> Well . before I offer arguments on how to change this . I'd like to 

> see if this stimulates conversation.


I'm intrigued. Continue.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net

On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Glenn Young wrote:

> OK . I've been urged to come back in and raise a few 

> "controversial" points

>

>

>

> So . let me start by asking some questions - Leading to the 

> conclusion --- that we need to comprehensive reform of the ABE 

> system . and that reform needs to focus on the extensive use of the 

> new technologies that are generally available to all (who can 

> afford them) . and these questions are:

>

>

>

> On average . how long does it take for a person entering ABE 

> programs to reach their goals, if they stay in the program long 

> enough to reach their goals?

>

>

>

> On average . how many persons entering ABE programs "drop out" 

> before reaching their goals?

>

>

>

> And again, on average, how many "efforts" (starting and then 

> dropping out and then starting again) does it take for an ABE 

> student to reach their goals?

>

>

>

> The answer to these questions will of course vary from location to 

> location (great teachers, more "modern" approaches, less "impacted" 

> students .

>

>

>

> Also the current answers will change quite a bit as the 

> demographics of the ABE population changes as more of the impacts 

> of NCLB are felt in the ABE programs (which we have seen quite a 

> bit of change in the demographics especially in the South, where 

> ABE has become the standard "placement" for 10th graders who do not 

> "test well" and high school drop out rates have soared in the past 

> 7 years .

>

>

>

> OK . given all of that . anyone want to guess at what the "current 

> numbers seem to be?

>

>

>

> So should I just give them?

>

>

>

> Well . I will give the best information I have . based on the US 

> DEPT of ED reports based on their National Reporting System . which 

> really does not cover these points very well . but we can see what 

> we can see ..

>

>

>

> On average . it currently takes some 3-5 years before a person 

> reaches their goals in ABE programs

>

> On average . in actuality very few persons stay 3-5 years and so 

> less then 10% actually reach their goals . at least 20% of people 

> drop out of programs within the first then hours of service .

>

> On average - people try something like 3 times before dropping out 

> for good.

>

>

>

> So . it appears on average the ABE system fails almost all it 

> serves and fails them dramatically

>

>

>

> So . how do we change this?

>

>

>

> Well . before I offer arguments on how to change this . I'd like to 

> see if this stimulates conversation.

>

>

>

> Thank

>

>

>

>

>

> Glenn Young

>

> CSLD

>

> 530 Auburn Ave

>

> Buffalo NY 14222

>

> Cell 703-864-3755

>

> Phone/Fax 716-882-2842

>

> website: glennyoungcsld.com

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Learning Disabilities mailing list
LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
Email delivered to gyoungxlt at roadrunner.com

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Learning Disabilities mailing list
LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities
Email delivered to bcarmel at rocketmail.com


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/learningdisabilities/attachments/20080324/0876bc49/attachment.html