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[LearningDisabilities 1846] Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Technology is the Answer!Hayden, Geraldine M. Geraldine.Hayden at vadoc.virginia.govThu Mar 27 15:52:36 EDT 2008
Tell me more about the technology, specifically. I would be very interested in piloting software to help my incarcerated SPED students. -----Original Message----- From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Glenn Young Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:59 PM To: 'The Learning Disabilities Discussion List' Subject: [Possible SPAM] [LearningDisabilities 1833] Re: Technology is the Answer! As in all change efforts ... its starts with a few successes ... So Sheri's "anecdotal" stories of success ... raises the question of what would happen if the process became more accessible ... and uses even greater amounts of the new technology ... and the new mobility offered with the great advancements in technology We do need pilot projects to test this theory, not just a few success stories ... and in order to do so we need a state or city to step forward and commit some resources to do so ... Anyone out there got any of this? We can get away with a "random section study" with as few as 100 in the experimental group ... to start the ball rolling ... And I have a software company willing to provide extensive amount of in kind (that means free) software to support the project ... We need some entities (or entity) .... to provide leadership And with these entities ... we can even see if we can "hustle" some hardware .... But ... first is we need a "system" of some size to say ... "Lets try this in a real way" ... So .... Glenn Young CSLD 530 Auburn Ave Buffalo NY 14222 Cell 703-864-3755 Phone/Fax 716-882-2842 website: glennyoungcsld.com -----Original Message----- From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sheri Rogers Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 10:17 AM To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1826] Re: Technology is the Answer! Glenn, I used a handheld Kurzweil Reader with a student to prepare for the GED test on audiotape. There was a special loan project for the NFB for the use of it- I just about cried when I had to send it back at the end of the project..... I also use frequently the RFBD GED/PRE-GED CD's that can be played for students on a computer equipped with software to read the CD's. They have made a world of difference for the adults who will use them. Adults who think they are "too old" (their words)to use a computer are hesitate to use technology. Students in their teens who use audiotapes/CD's think the text is read "too slowly" and get bored and mind wanders....Then there's that magical group of students who say, "YES! This is exactly what I need. Now I can do it!" I'm in on the technology project! I need more training, more access to technology and will have more engaged LEARNERS! Sheri D. Rogers Director of Adult Education Arkadelphia Public Schools 870.246.1104 >>> <learningdisabilities-request at nifl.gov> 03/27/08 8:55 AM >>> Send LearningDisabilities mailing list submissions to learningdisabilities at nifl.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to learningdisabilities-request at nifl.gov You can reach the person managing the list at learningdisabilities-owner at nifl.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of LearningDisabilities digest..." Today's Topics: 1. [LearningDisabilities 1823] Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Controversialagain (Linda Peterson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:56:39 -0400 From: "Linda Peterson" <dalind at verizon.net> Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1823] Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Controversialagain To: "The Learning Disabilities Discussion List" <learningdisabilities at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <008001c88fb6$312c5d30$6400a8c0 at toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" have you received all the request you need? if not count me in ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Young To: 'The Learning Disabilities Discussion List' Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1814] Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Controversialagain Geraldine . Yes I have a proposal . but I was waiting to see if anyone was really paying attention .. So yes I do have you hanging to see if people were really open to a new approach to the issue . So . if a few more ask . then I present it . Glenn Young CSLD 530 Auburn Ave Buffalo NY 14222 Cell 703-864-3755 Phone/Fax 716-882-2842 website: glennyoungcsld.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- -- From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Hayden, Geraldine M. Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:53 PM To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1813] Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Controversialagain Glenn, I always tell my students that if you have a concern or complaint, you must offer a viable solution. You seem to have us hanging with a plausible solution. What do you have in mind? Geri Hayden Geraldine M. Hayden SPED/504 Coordinator Department of Correctional Education Fluvanna Correctional Center for Women ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- -- From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Glenn Young Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:25 PM To: 'The Learning Disabilities Discussion List' Subject: [Possible SPAM] [LearningDisabilities 1805] Re: Controversial again Well at least I started some interesting discussion And I must add that when we talk "on average" . what one must do . dear I say it . is not compare their local or even state programs per say . but to look at the national aggravate data .. We really can not tell without a great deal of work. where our state or local program fits along the "bell curve" of all ABE students or all ABE programs . So, while people respond to the data I present . based on their own programs or states it becomes a bit more problematic in how to have the discussion if they stand only on their local data . and want to have a dispute over a percentage or two . we need to look at the issues I am raising in a bit more of global perspective. And the key point that has been raised so far . that we can or can not measure success based on if students meet their goals . well that is the crux of my point . If we don't meet the goals of the students . what is our purpose? My point on this is that it does not really matter if we think the goals are unrealistic or not . it is their goals and they have a reason for having these goals . and a reason often imposed upon them by other factors than the ABE system, or wishful thinking . such as welfare clients being told they have 6 months to get a GED or they can't stay on welfare . unrealistic or not . the pressures upon them are real and therefore their goals are real to them . Also, if a person wants to get into an internship with a labor union or a training program in the food industry etc . and they may require a GED . the student's goal of getting the GED is an economic necessity, a great needed item . often the key to economic success for that student . and not something they can wait 3-5 years to obtain. So with these pressure, which are very real and very impacting on their lives . the ABE program says the goal is unrealistic . but that really does not matter to the person coming in, the customer . the GED is what they need and the GED is what is their goal .saying or inferring that the goal can not be met or met in a timely fashion is a major reason why they customer will leave, and we failed them. Currently the ABE system offers an approach that provides a path to the GED on average that will take 3-5 years (that means for some its will be a lot faster, and for other much, much longer, if at all . ) and then We measure our success with a great deal of "selection bias" , which makes it appear that our programs do better then they do . (in this case the selection is that those who stay often only need a limited amount of help and those who don't stay are the ones who need a lot more help . and therefore . in the short run it appears out programs work for many of those who stay . but the selection bias is very great and we can not really say that the programs, on average, really work well for the majority of those in need .only for whom the current model fits and then only some of them.) My point is that we should not be saying . the goal is unrealistic. That does not help the client. We need to be asking . how can this client's goal be reached? To meet her/his needs . to address to their crisis ..And if we consistently can not meet the goal . then is it ABE that needs to be changing, not limiting or changing the goals of the customers . Can we figure out a way to not say we can't meet these much needed goals . but to be asking how can we "modernize" to meet the goals? .. And to steal a much used phrase of this political season . yes we can! So what is the change? For the person who asked about Orton Gillingham, while a far more valid approach to reading for adults then the methods mostly used . that is not a solution for the short time . it still takes years to gain the skills .often taking hundreds of hours that builds on the intensity of each session (something most adults do not have the time to do, in a concentrated time fashion.) . and also the key problem in passing the GED is not just reading skills but knowledge . and so we need a solution that focuses gaining the knowledge to pass the GED.) Therefore . again . I am asking . is there a different approach, a different paradigm in which we can meet the needs of the greater amount of customers? The ones who appear to have such "unrealistic" but really needed goals. Not meeting the needs of the teachers in thinking they are helping by increasing the literacy skills to some degree, but a different way of helping out customers meet their needs in reaching the much needed goal of getting the GED, or keeping that job, or getting a new job or staying on welfare till they can work, or getting into the apprenticeship program, or retraining to fit the new economy . etc. you know, . what the customers needs. . So I do say yes . and it is not that more costly . and considering cost benefit analysis . it is far cheaper .. Then the current models, and far more productive for the customer . And when I give the solution . I can hear all the objections now . because it is really so customer focused (and teachers are not the customers of ABE) but I just want the chance to prove it . And if we can just get a state or two to field test the idea . I can prove it too . (unfortunately the big grant foundation I was after, and had high hopes for, just turned us down ..) anyone got a little funding to create a new world or opportunities? Oh yes . the solution . like a good cliffhanger . details later . after more response. Glenn Young CSLD 530 Auburn Ave Buffalo NY 14222 Cell 703-864-3755 Phone/Fax 716-882-2842 website: glennyoungcsld.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- -- From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bruce C Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:00 AM To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1801] Re: Controversial again Dear List, I could write forever about this, but I'll try to be succint: First of all, adult literacy programs are working with a very challenging population. We work with people who--for a variety of largely unresearched reasons--did not learn to read in the ways that most people were able to learn. It is unrealistic to expect that people who have struggled all their lives to learn how to read would all suddenly have an easy time of learning. Also, what are we talking about when we talk about students achieving their ABE goals? Most people come to my program saying they want their GED. Many take years to get that. Some don't ever get a GED, but they improve their literacy levels. What is the impact on income, civic involvement, children's literacy levels if someone's reading level goes up? We don't know, but I would sure like to find out. Finally, why is it considered a problem if 20% drop out in the first few hours? 80% stay and 20% decide they are not ready to make the commitment now. It's like joining a gym. It's easy to sign up, but hard to work out three times a week. Also, how many of those 20% come back later when the time is right? from Bruce Carmel Glenn Young <gyoungxlt at roadrunner.com> wrote: OK David ... but that's just your nature Are there others? Glenn Young CSLD 530 Auburn Ave Buffalo NY 14222 Cell 703-864-3755 Phone/Fax 716-882-2842 website: glennyoungcsld.com -----Original Message----- From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of David J. Rosen Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:46 AM To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1796] Controversial again Glenn, On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Glenn Young wrote: > Well . before I offer arguments on how to change this . I'd like to > see if this stimulates conversation. I'm intrigued. Continue. David J. Rosen djrosen at comcast.net On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Glenn Young wrote: > OK . I've been urged to come back in and raise a few > "controversial" points > > > > So . let me start by asking some questions - Leading to the > conclusion --- that we need to comprehensive reform of the ABE > system . and that reform needs to focus on the extensive use of the > new technologies that are generally available to all (who can > afford them) . and these questions are: > > > > On average . how long does it take for a person entering ABE > programs to reach their goals, if they stay in the program long > enough to reach their goals? > > > > On average . how many persons entering ABE programs "drop out" > before reaching their goals? > > > > And again, on average, how many "efforts" (starting and then > dropping out and then starting again) does it take for an ABE > student to reach their goals? > > > > The answer to these questions will of course vary from location to > location (great teachers, more "modern" approaches, less "impacted" > students . > > > > Also the current answers will change quite a bit as the > demographics of the ABE population changes as more of the impacts > of NCLB are felt in the ABE programs (which we have seen quite a > bit of change in the demographics especially in the South, where > ABE has become the standard "placement" for 10th graders who do not > "test well" and high school drop out rates have soared in the past > 7 years . > > > > OK . given all of that . anyone want to guess at what the "current > numbers seem to be? > > > > So should I just give them? > > > > Well . I will give the best information I have . based on the US > DEPT of ED reports based on their National Reporting System . which > really does not cover these points very well . but we can see what > we can see .. > > > > On average . it currently takes some 3-5 years before a person > reaches their goals in ABE programs > > On average . in actuality very few persons stay 3-5 years and so > less then 10% actually reach their goals . at least 20% of people > drop out of programs within the first then hours of service . > > On average - people try something like 3 times before dropping out > for good. > > > > So . it appears on average the ABE system fails almost all it > serves and fails them dramatically > > > > So . how do we change this? > > > > Well . before I offer arguments on how to change this . I'd like to > see if this stimulates conversation. > > > > Thank > > > > > > Glenn Young > > CSLD > > 530 Auburn Ave > > Buffalo NY 14222 > > Cell 703-864-3755 > > Phone/Fax 716-882-2842 > > website: glennyoungcsld.com ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Learning Disabilities mailing list LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities Email delivered to gyoungxlt at roadrunner.com ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Learning Disabilities mailing list LearningDisabilities at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/learningdisabilities Email delivered to bcarmel at rocketmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- -- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! 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