Another point I've raised (at a workshop the Bill facilitated) and elsewhere
is that the GED itself is problematic as the sole 'marker' of success for
ABE learners.  In other words, it seems that there's the GED and nothing
else to signal that an adult learner has accomplished something.

For many adults, the GED is a far-away goal, and there aren't  acknowledged
steps along the way to indicate progress.  For basic level learners, there's
a lot to accomplish, but little way of recognizing those accomplishments.  I
realize that this is separate from the economic indicators being discussed,
but I wish that as a field we could find other ways to talk about progress
and benchmarks because:
a) it would help learners set and achieve incremental and continuous goals;
(and might help strengthen persistence);
b) it would help employers and the general public understand that there are
a number of things that adults *can* do even without the GED;
c) would help potential learners and those making referrals understand that
an ABE learner isn't necessarily looking for a GED class (yet), but for a
program that helps him/her address basic skills.

As well, we haven't even touched on the EDP or the Work Readiness
Credentials.

A woman I've been working with in prison for six years recently passed her
GED.  She still has two years to serve.  Occasionally, there are community
college courses she's able to take (from inside the prison), but I can't
"count" my work with her for NRS purposes, without asking her to take a TABE
test (which isn't something I'm willing to do).

I'm curious to know more about Daphne's question -

> I'm very interested in the "why"-- is the stigma of prison outweighingthe

> usually positive (albeit small) effects of the GED?


- especially as my student and I contemplate her employment prospects upon
release.

There are many. many issues to untangle here.

Janet Isserlis



> From: Barbara Garner <b.garner4 at verizon.net>



> 

> Good point, Bill, I agree. The GED is a beginning, not an end point.

> 

> What is happening with post-secondary programs, pre- and/or post-release,

> these days? Are they seeing a lot of success?

> Barb Garner

> 

> 

> =====================

> From: William R Muth/FS/VCU <wrmuth at vcu.edu>

> Date: 2006/11/28 Tue PM 11:43:12 CST

> To: b.garner4 at verizon.net,

> "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"

> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> Subject: Re: [PovertyRaceWomen 74] Re: economic impact of earning a GED

> while in prison

> 

> 

> As I understand John Tyler's study,the signalling effect of the GED tends to

> benefit those who are least educatedand minority. These achievers enjoy higher

> wage earnings (although stillprobably at poverty-level) for three years after

> release from prison. Isthat such a negative finding? Should we expect the GED

> to be the "magicbullet" that solves the myriad of issues facing individuals

> returningto society: addictions, homelessness/renegotiating relationships with

> family,dangerous associations from the past, etc.?  For me the take awaypoints

> from John's study are: (a) emphasizing quality foundational literacylearning

> prior to GED credentialing programs, and (b) then providing

> adequatepostsecondary programs (e.g., AA degrees in vocational/technology) to

> enablenewly released people to find meaningful, entry-level skilledwork. The

> GED is not the problem. It's just not a panacea either.

> -Bill

>   

>   

> 

> 

> 

> Barbara Garner <b.garner4 at verizon.net>

> Sent by: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

> 11/28/2006 04:56 PMPlease respond to

> b.garner4 at verizon.net; Please respond to

> "The Poverty, Race,        Women and LiteracyDiscussion List"

> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> ToDaphne Greenberg

> <ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu>,PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.govccSubject[PovertyRaceWomen

> 74] Re: economic impactof earning a GED while        in       prison

> 

> 

> 

> 

> I remember this article well, because the findingsare so disheartening for

> educators. An extensive query about the methodologywas conducted, but it

> couldn't be faulted.

> 

> I'm very interested in the "why"-- is the stigma of prison outweighingthe

> usually positive (albeit small) effects of the GED?

> 

> Do minorities show a slight earnings gain because they start with suchlow

> earnings?

> Does anyone have any insights ?

> Barb Garner

> Editor, Focus on Basics

> =====================

> From: Daphne Greenberg <ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu>

> Date: 2006/11/28 Tue PM 01:55:10 CST

> To: PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 72] economic impact of earning a GED while in     

>          prison

> 

> On the Focus on Basics list, Julie McKinney, the list moderator postedanother

> article which may be of interest to some of you:

> What are the Economic Effects of Earning a GED in Prison?

> http://www.ncsall.net/?id=822

> In case you don't feel like reading the whole article, the aspect thatI think

> is of interest to this listserv is that the study looked at thedifferences of

> the economic impact of earning a GED while in prison, betweenwhite and

> nonwhite ex-offenders: ³Among racial and ethnic minority offenders* primarily

> African Americans with a smaller number of Hispanics * we foundabout a 20

> percent increase in the earnings among GED holders relativeto non-GED holders

> in the first post-release year. This effect declinedin the second year and by

> the third year it fell away to basically zero,²explains Tyler. ³We found that,

> for white offenders, there was no differencein the post-release earnings or

> employment for individuals who got a GEDversus those who did not.²

> 

> Any thoughts/reactions?

> Daphne

> 

> 

>