Daphne--

What do you do when your students,  or teachers you work with speak 
improperly--grammar for example?  Some are in the student position and 
some are in the teacher position, so your relationship with each group 
is different.  I correct the  students/teachers who live in my home 
whenever I hear something "off," but I am usually old enough to be 
their mother, so I figure I am "allowed."

Andrea

On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:36 AM, Daphne Greenberg wrote:


> Mev,

> In your group read alouds, do you also read aloud with them? I was

> wondering if it would make a difference if you modeled reading the 

> swear

> words, dialect, slang and whether that could free up the group's 

> comfort

> in also doing so.

> I have experience reading out loud with women who have very low reading

> skills and they appreciate hearing me model how text is read. We have

> talked about the various ways of writing, genres, and styles. We talk

> about making the characters coming alive by reading their words the way

> we think they may sound, given what we know about the characters (for

> example, whether they are young or old, from the Caribbean or from

> China, etc., etc).

> I have run into resistance from teachers who feel uncomfortable reading

> swear words, dialect, slang. In terms of the swear words, they don't

> think that it is "appropriate" to swear, and in terms of dialect, they

> "don't want to reinforce non standard English" I have even come across 

> a

> copy of the book Push where the teacher crossed out all the swear

> words!!!!!!!!!! I find it harder to convince these teachers than I have

> found it to be convincing students who are struggling readers.

> Daphne

>

>>>> "mev at litwomen.org" <mev at litwomen.org> 12/29/06 8:18 AM >>>

> This is an interesting conversation...and I'd like to add a different

> spin to it. I am currently facilitating Women Leading Through Reading

> Discussion Circles with women in Rhode Island [see WE LEARN Article:

> http://www.litwomen.org/news/06nov.pdf] . As women in these groups read

>

> aloud to each other, I have found 2 things: 1) they often will not read

>

> aloud any swear words they encounter; and 2) if they see  some form of

> dialect or slang written for a character's conversation, they often do

> not read it aloud that way -- they "translate" it into "correct"

> English and read aloud the "corrected" version! This happens more often

>

> than not.

>

> even though I encourage students to read it the way it's written, they

> clearly have some discomfort in doing this.   I find it's not always

> clear why ... Do they want to demonstrate that they "know" this is

> "improper" English? What level of shame is already operative? Do they

> not want to read for a white woman their street language (though I have

>

> seen them correct the written word with black teachers as well)? When I

>

> have asked why they don't read what's written, they will often say

> "because it's wrong" or "we're not supposed to talk that way."

>

> I would also wonder how many of us truly stick to proper English in the

>

> classroom? I have found myself in some situations where we're having

> social conversation and my own informal terminologies and

> pronunciations, well, slide.... I have lived in several states with

> varying dialects and accents...as I age, I carry and combine pieces of

> each in a mixed up way  -- some I "call up" as needed and others I can

> no longer discreetly identify! (I'm a language chameleon and often take

>

> on what I hear, especially in various regions of the country, even when

>

> it's not my region of origin.) Also, as someone mentioned, this brings

> up an interesting situation when there are English language learners

> also present in the room -- as everyone works to "decipher" accents and

>

> pronunciations.

>

> So, as we have these discussions with our students, we may want to have

>

> the "values" conversation as well. What do they value and why? What do

> they need (or want) to do to "fit in" -- and how do they know when,

> where and why to do this? What's important to "succeed" -- and what

> does that mean -(when & where & at what)? Success could mean in the

> business world, but it might also mean what they need to do to live

> without threat in their neighborhood or home.  This, I think, becomes a

>

> gender issue as women will more often care about what people think,

> will consider how to be pleasing, and will know (or learn) how to adapt

>

> to survive or get what they need/want -- regardless of their economic

> situation.

>

> Mev Miller

> WE LEARN

>

>

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