Oh dear--I forgot to say that the two ladies who live in my home now 
come from bilingual families, so "correction" is really OK, i fact they 
want to know if they say something incorrect.  This is ESPECIALLY 
important for the Japanese teacher, who sometimes stumbles into using 
sexual language when she doesn't want to, or doesn't know the meaning, 
then she DEMANDS that I correct her!

Andrea

On Jan 1, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Daphne Greenberg wrote:


> When I saw your question, I laughed, because I am often the one who has

> to be corrected! I have never corrected other teachers, but I am not

> sure that I have ever been a position where this was an issue. In terms

> of adult students, unless they have told me that they want to be

> corrected, or it is an English language class, I only correct written

> grammar, not oral grammar.

> Daphhne

>

>>>> Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> 01/01/07 11:21 AM >>>

> Daphne--

>

> What do you do when your students,  or teachers you work with speak

> improperly--grammar for example?  Some are in the student position and

> some are in the teacher position, so your relationship with each group

> is different.  I correct the  students/teachers who live in my home

> whenever I hear something "off," but I am usually old enough to be

> their mother, so I figure I am "allowed."

>

> Andrea

>

> On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:36 AM, Daphne Greenberg wrote:

>

>> Mev,

>> In your group read alouds, do you also read aloud with them? I was

>> wondering if it would make a difference if you modeled reading the

>> swear

>> words, dialect, slang and whether that could free up the group's

>> comfort

>> in also doing so.

>> I have experience reading out loud with women who have very low

> reading

>> skills and they appreciate hearing me model how text is read. We have

>> talked about the various ways of writing, genres, and styles. We talk

>> about making the characters coming alive by reading their words the

> way

>> we think they may sound, given what we know about the characters (for

>> example, whether they are young or old, from the Caribbean or from

>> China, etc., etc).

>> I have run into resistance from teachers who feel uncomfortable

> reading

>> swear words, dialect, slang. In terms of the swear words, they don't

>> think that it is "appropriate" to swear, and in terms of dialect, they

>> "don't want to reinforce non standard English" I have even come across

>

>> a

>> copy of the book Push where the teacher crossed out all the swear

>> words!!!!!!!!!! I find it harder to convince these teachers than I

> have

>> found it to be convincing students who are struggling readers.

>> Daphne

>>

>>>>> "mev at litwomen.org" <mev at litwomen.org> 12/29/06 8:18 AM >>>

>> This is an interesting conversation...and I'd like to add a different

>> spin to it. I am currently facilitating Women Leading Through Reading

>> Discussion Circles with women in Rhode Island [see WE LEARN Article:

>> http://www.litwomen.org/news/06nov.pdf] . As women in these groups

> read

>>

>> aloud to each other, I have found 2 things: 1) they often will not

> read

>>

>> aloud any swear words they encounter; and 2) if they see  some form of

>> dialect or slang written for a character's conversation, they often do

>> not read it aloud that way -- they "translate" it into "correct"

>> English and read aloud the "corrected" version! This happens more

> often

>>

>> than not.

>>

>> even though I encourage students to read it the way it's written, they

>> clearly have some discomfort in doing this.   I find it's not always

>> clear why ... Do they want to demonstrate that they "know" this is

>> "improper" English? What level of shame is already operative? Do they

>> not want to read for a white woman their street language (though I

> have

>>

>> seen them correct the written word with black teachers as well)? When

> I

>>

>> have asked why they don't read what's written, they will often say

>> "because it's wrong" or "we're not supposed to talk that way."

>>

>> I would also wonder how many of us truly stick to proper English in

> the

>>

>> classroom? I have found myself in some situations where we're having

>> social conversation and my own informal terminologies and

>> pronunciations, well, slide.... I have lived in several states with

>> varying dialects and accents...as I age, I carry and combine pieces of

>> each in a mixed up way  -- some I "call up" as needed and others I can

>> no longer discreetly identify! (I'm a language chameleon and often

> take

>>

>> on what I hear, especially in various regions of the country, even

> when

>>

>> it's not my region of origin.) Also, as someone mentioned, this brings

>> up an interesting situation when there are English language learners

>> also present in the room -- as everyone works to "decipher" accents

> and

>>

>> pronunciations.

>>

>> So, as we have these discussions with our students, we may want to

> have

>>

>> the "values" conversation as well. What do they value and why? What do

>> they need (or want) to do to "fit in" -- and how do they know when,

>> where and why to do this? What's important to "succeed" -- and what

>> does that mean -(when & where & at what)? Success could mean in the

>> business world, but it might also mean what they need to do to live

>> without threat in their neighborhood or home.  This, I think, becomes

> a

>>

>> gender issue as women will more often care about what people think,

>> will consider how to be pleasing, and will know (or learn) how to

> adapt

>>

>> to survive or get what they need/want -- regardless of their economic

>> situation.

>>

>> Mev Miller

>> WE LEARN

>>

>>

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>

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