What do you mean by the Marxist stuff that Freire fell for? Which
Marxist stuff are you referring to? All of it. Can you explain what
specifically bothers you about "the Marxist stuff". Otherwise, it sound
like one of those discussions where the Marxist stuff is all evil and
instead of having a discussion about concepts and ideas, we are starting
the discussion with an a-priori determinations that we cannot include
certain things in the conversation because someone has arbitrarily
dismissed it. 

It's sort of those discussions where someone feels that phonics are bad,
or sight-word is bad and without understanding anything about the things
that they dislike, they dismiss it a-priori and embrace a no-phonics
approach, or only phonics approach.  

BTW, if you read my introductions to the books that the students wrote,
you will not see any of the Marxist stuff. Just because I don't say
praxis, base-superstructure, conscientization, etc. it doesn't make it
less Freirian. 

Andres

-----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:51 AM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 204] Re: GED programs with a popular
educationapproach

The marxist stuff--Freire fell for it  late in life.  The person and 
the family disappear.  Also, the small face to face community.
"Class struggle" and "critical praxis."  This may well be a vocabulary 
problem, but otherwise i will not yield an inch.  I Think these are 
short-cut words.  They often seem to be associated with a top down 
approach  and  a big hammer.

One of my heroes, Richard Cash,  who is  responsible for saving 
millions of children  through oral rehydration therapy, says (I can't 
find the exact quote) that you must go into the  local community, that 
is where you will find the right questions to ask.

Ujwala--thanks for asking.

Andrea

On Jan 8, 2007, at 10:58 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:


> Dear Andrea,

>

> You've lost me there. What language do you detest?

>

> regards

> Ujwala

>

>

> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>

>> Ditmar and others,

>>

>> I must put up my small flag here:  I absolutely

>> detest the  language

>> used in this educational movement.  To me, it seems

>> foreign and laid on

>> with a  trowel.  Am I for social empowerment?  Of

>> course.  Am I for

>> social movements which try to being about even  a

>> modicum of social

>> justice?  Absolutely.

>>

>> Back to the trenches,

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>> On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Muro, Andres wrote:

>>

>>> Hi Ujwalla, David, Andrea, Ditmar:

>>>

>>> We did a project with our students that has strong

>> Freirian elements.

>>> This is an ongoing project with migrant students

>> in which they write

>>> their own stories and we publish them. to see this

>> project please

>>> visit:

>>>

>>> http://bordersenses.com/memorias

>>>

>>> While the stories are written in Spanish most of

>> them have been

>>> translated. If you want to read the content,

>> please click on each of

>>> the books. Also, to understand the theoretical

>> foundation you can read

>>> my introduction to both books. They are in

>> English. I kept the

>>> introductions very simple without making any

>> references, However, the

>>> work is influenced by Freire,Dewey, Giroux, etal.

>> You will see in the

>>> intrductions the elements of Freirianism that

>> Ditmar points to.

>>>

>>> Andres

>>>

>>> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf

>> of

>>> ditmar0906_inossian at netzero.net

>>> Sent: Sat 1/6/2007 4:26 PM

>>> To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov

>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 197] Re: GED programs

>> with a popular

>>> educationa pproach

>>>

>>>

>>> Yes, Project Hope's Adult Learners Program uses

>> (or did use) a popular

>>> education approach that is distinctly Freireian,

>> and this program was

>>> the focus of Lorna's dissertation. For what it's

>> worth,

>>> "conscientisation" was the focus of Freire's

>> approach: a process by

>>> which a group (not at all about individual

>> empowerment here [think

>>> "class struggle"]) becomes aware of their

>> oppression and discovers

>>> that they have a popular culture that is both

>> political and

>>> social--has a sociopolitical role in history (as

>> Marx understood

>>> history). The group learners engage in "critical

>> praxis" or dialogue

>>> toward the end of identifying common interests.

>> It's rather like an

>>> effort to critique false consciousness through 1)

>> an investigation of

>>> the thematic universe (identifying themes); 2)

>> identifying those

>>> themes that are "generative"; 3) codification of

>> those generative

>>> themes, and 4) dialogue within the cultural circle

>> of learners to

>>> interpret those themes (i.e. create meaning). I

>> know this sounds very

>>> abstract but one might think of it as a very

>> Marxist-oriented version

>>> of the ideology critique that was advanced by the

>> Frankfurt School and

>>> later by educational theorists who continue to

>> work in this tradition

>>> (e.g. Giroux, Apple, etc.).

>>>

>>> Freire's goal was social change, not individual

>> empowerment nor

>>> individual transformation. In fact, in my own

>> reading of Freire, he

>>> didn't even think that individual transformation

>> was possible. In

>>> other words, he never intended for his theory to

>> be used as a means

>>> for helping learners function within the given

>> social system. One

>>> might argue that if you change individuals, you

>> will change society

>>> (one person at a time). However, this can be true

>> only from an

>>> anthropological view of history (i.e., the driving

>> force behind

>>> history is human experience/consciousness). From a

>> structuralist (or

>>> Marxist) point of view, the consciousness of the

>> individual makes no

>>> difference; it's class consciousness that matters

>> because one's

>>> individual consciousness is a product of ideology;

>> individuals become

>>> subjects only through their subjection to

>> processes of production

>>> (i.e., the reproduction of production, or more

>> commonly, the

>>> reproduction of inequality). So basically "popular

>> education" becomes

>>> a mechanism for bringing about class struggle.

>> Finally, Freire never

>>> specified the end results of pedagogical praxis

>> because the "solution"

>>> or product was not known, in fact could not be

>> known--it evolved

>>> among/through the people. Social change was then

>> the process of

>>> peaceful intervention into the system

>> by initiating dialogue with the

>>> "oppressors" to develop alternatives.

>>>

>>> The philosophical foundations are to be found in

>> Catholic humanism

>>> (Catholic Action, Liberation Theology,

>> etc.), orthodox Marxism, and

>>> German philosophy (particularly Hegel). Freire

>> also integrated bits of

>>> critical theory into his approach, which

>> evolved into his "Movement of

>>> Education from the Base" (a take-off on the

>> "Popular Church from the

>>> Base" that evolved during the revolutionary period

>> in Latin America).

>>> See his two major contributions to adult education

>> theory and

>>> practice: Pedagogy of the Oppressed and

>> Education as the Practice of

>>> Freedom (both late 1960s). Lorna's dissertation is

>> a marvelous

>>> illustration of how one GED program puts these

>> principles into

>>> practice.

>>>

>>> Thanks. --Ditmar

>>>

>>> C. Ditmar Coffield

>>>

>>>

>>> -- eleonelli at aol.com wrote:

>>>

>> David - I think that Project Hope in Dorchester, MA

> takes a popular

>>> education approach in their program.

>>>

>>> Esther

>>> __________________________________

>>> Esther D. Leonelli

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: djrosen at comcast.net

>>> Sent: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:14 AM

>>>

>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 194] Re: GED programs

> with a popular

>>> education approach

>>>

>>>    Hi Andrea,

>>>

>>> Thanks.  I have emailed Lorna.

>>>

>>> All the best,

>>>

>>> David

>>>

>>> On Jan 5, 2007, at 1:37 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:

>>>

>>>> David,

>>>>

>>>

>>> Thank you for the list, it makes me feel very

> happy to have all these

>>>

>>> values in teaching spelled out. What a

> comprehensive list!  Lorna

>>>

>>> Rivera I believe used the term "popular education"

>  in her

>>>

>>> dissertation.  Perhaps you have already asked her

> about GED

>>

> === message truncated ===>

> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,

>> please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>

>

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

> http://mail.yahoo.com

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>


----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen