Andrea,

I am sorry but the way in which I interpreted your
writing was that it was dismissive of Freire, because
you were struggling with the translation and language.


>>I wrote that David R's translation of

> Freire into his 9 points 

> is warm and humane.  Not all theory is hard to read.

>  These terms are 

> opaque, not transparent. <<


And yet, I found this humaneness in Freire's own
writings, whether alone or in collaboration with say
Macedo. The reason Freire has such a large following
is because his words touch us, the world he seeks is
one of equity, or shared power, which appeals to a lot
of people. 


>>I have to listen to the

> experiences of other 

> people, and try to understand from how they are

> speaking what the words 

>   mean.  Ditmar gave a gloss, this is very useful,

> as I said  I muddle 

> along, I continue to muddle along with Freire.  I

> criticize the 

> language because it is what it is--hard to read.<<


I believe Freire listened to people's experiences, and
his theory is based on the power of people an dtheir
experiences. Seems to me this discussion is now about
semantics: whether we like or dislike how a theory has
been written, not how people's experiences have made
it a reality.


>>I

> have not, except in 

> the African case, criticized his work--even though

> his wife, Elza did, 

> when he got  too much like a professor when he was

> out in the field;  

> he acknowledged this. <<


And yet, the really successful adult literacy
programmes in Africa and Asia practice his theory,
and, quite successfully at that. I have nothing
against critique, as one of my professor's Pramod
Parajuli said, "We're the loyal opposition." So, after
this criticism of his work, what happened? Did the
programme suffer? Was it changed? 


 >>Why do you think I criticized

> those who use his 

> ideas?  I  don't think I have. I think many of his

> words as translated 

> are short-cuts, when the reality is  what should be

> described.  I have 

> a tape of an interview  with Ira Schor which

> describes how he 

> translated Freire's terms  into his teaching

> reality.  As far as I know 

> Freire was the first to speak with  such passion

> about the  social 

> position of illiterates and low literates.<<


In my experience, we all learn theories. We see few if
any in practice. Freire's philosophy  and teaching
ideas are the only ones I have seen that work, make
sense to people and are still being used, after
decades  of being explored. This debate over the
clunkiness of Freire's language and translation has
gone on ever since Pedagogy first came out. For me,
the success of Freire lies not in debates over
translation, but more where it matters: in action.


> I am sorry that you are offended, I don't think it

> is necessary.  My 

> criticism of Freire's terms is not a criticism of

> the  man except in 

> one example.  My CD of him is fabulous.<<

My apologies, but that did not come up in your
writing. Again, your words and my translation?


> I know many find  Thoreau boring,  Gandhi was

> influenced by him.  I  

> was with an Indian (from India) when he went on a

> "pilgrimage" to 

> Walden.. <<


Not quite sure what Gandhi has to do with this
conversation... he was influenced by plenty of
philosophers. And being a lawyer, was a well read man.
So was Nehru, who I have great admiration for. But
they were the educated abroad, intellectual elite of
India, with a strong social conscience.


>>My guess  is that his work is poorly

> taught in school, and 

> indeed for most people, inappropriate.<<


Schools can and do ruin good ideas for many of us...
 

> With Jefferson there is the other problem--beautiful

> words from a man 

> who continued to hold slaves while others set  them 

> free.<<


And with Gandhi and Nehru, their sexual needs and
attitudes towards women were in direct contradiction
of the ideals of equality that they advocated. But,
despite that one cannot discredit their ideas, ideals,
and the work they did for Indian Independence.

Thanks for taking the time to reply,
cheers
Ujwala

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