Thanks Andre, that was the poingt I was trying to
make. 
Ujwala
--- "Muro, Andres" <amuro5 at epcc.edu> wrote:


> The words that you cite are words to describe

> concepts and ideas. If you disagree with the

> concepts and ideas, then that is great. What I am

> trying to understand is what specifically you don't

> like about the idea of, say, conscientization or

> critical praxis, etc. If you disagree with these

> ideas and you can specify the reason, then we can

> have a discussion about pedagogy. If you simple

> disregard them because they get your goat, then you

> are silencing a conversation. Also, if you have

> difficulty understanding what Freire meant by these

> things, then you can always say: "I ain't sure of

> what he means by "critical praxis" and many will

> help define this. Then you can say that you don't

> like the idea of critical praxis because you don't

> think that people need to know what forces shape

> their experience before they engage in activity, or

> you can say that you like the idea and you agree

> with it. Again, dismissing terms because they get

> your goat, or they sound Marxist is silencing a

> conversation before it starts. The process of

> silencing by saying that something is Marxist, or

> Passé, without engaging it is undemocratic. I know

> that that wasn't your intention, but it is the

> result. Instead of engaging Freire's pedagogy we are

> arguing with you about process. 

> 

>  

> 

> I appreciate that you feel more inclined to Thoreau

> because of his writing references to things that hit

> home. At the same time, Freire's work is part of the

> education field. I think that trying to understand

> Freire is important just like it would be to

> understand current anatomy and physiology or

> calculus if you want to be an engineer. 

> 

>  

> 

> At the same time, if you don't feel like you need to

> know or understand Freire to be a good educator that

> is just fine too. However, as I said before,

> dismissing him on the grounds that he is a Marxist

> or his language gets your goat is not constructive

> or conducive to anything.

> 

>  

> 

> Andres

> 

>  

> 

> ________________________________

> 

> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf

> Of Andrea Wilder

> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 11:45 AM

> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion

> List

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 207] Re: GED programs

> with apopulareducationa pproach

> 

>  

> 

> Andres-- 

> 

>  

> 

> It's the language that is associated with Freire,

> and that Ditmar used, some of it is quotations, I am

> sincerely grateful for that. I am also grateful for

> Ditmar embedding definitions in his text. 

> 

>  

> 

> But to your point, with or without quotations these

> word get my goat (obviously): class consciousness,

> class struggle, conscientisation, critical praxis,

> codification (which I actually usually do like), and

> pedagogical praxis. 

> 

>  

> 

> At one point Freire did go around the bend, my

> opinion, over in Africa, and started to dictate how

> his workbooks were to be used. TSK. Someone besides

> me picked this up, I was just reading along and

> there it was. 

> 

>  

> 

> By the way, I have I think a CD of Freire talking at

> Harvard's Ed School. That's ambiguous, I think it is

> a CD, I know it is at HGSE. 

> 

>  

> 

> David Rosen's list of attributes in Freirian/popular

> education teaching was profoundly human and adapted

> to a pluralistic American zeitgeist, my opinion. 

> 

>  

> 

> I understand Thoreau, I live near Walden Pond, I

> know the New England woods. Of course we have

> somewhat the same background, and MAYBE those who

> come from S.America feel more of a kinship with the

> writing style of Freire. Over to you, Andres. (AND

> WHERE IS THE SNOW?? I need snow to fully appreciate

> Thoreau.) 

> 

>  

> 

> Andrea 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On Jan 8, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Muro, Andres wrote: 

> 

> 	 

> 

> 	What language are you referring to? 

> 

> 	  

> 

> 	 

> 

> 	From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf

> Of Andrea Wilder 

> 

> 	Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:47 AM 

> 

> 	To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion

> List 

> 

> 	Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 200] Re: GED programs

> with a populareducationa pproach 

> 

> 	  

> 

> 	Ditmar and others, 

> 

> 	  

> 

> 	I must put up my small flag here: I absolutely

> detest the language used in this educational

> movement. To me, it seems foreign and laid on with a

> trowel. Am I for social empowerment? Of course. Am I

> for social movements which try to being about even a

> modicum of social justice? Absolutely. 

> 

> 	  

> 

> 	Back to the trenches, 

> 

> 	  

> 

> 	Andrea 

> 

> 	  

> 

> 	On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Muro, Andres wrote: 

> 

> 		  

> 

> 		Hi Ujwalla, David, Andrea, Ditmar: 

> 

> 		  

> 

> 		We did a project with our students that has strong

> Freirian elements. This is an ongoing project with

> migrant students in which they write their own

> stories and we publish them. to see this project

> please visit: 

> 

> 		  

> 

> 		http://bordersenses.com/memorias 

> 

> 		  

> 

> 		While the stories are written in Spanish most of

> them have been translated. If you want to read the

> content, please click on each of the books. Also, to

> understand the theoretical foundation you can read

> my introduction to both books. They are in English.

> I kept the introductions very simple without making

> any references, However, the work is influenced by

> Freire,Dewey, Giroux, etal. You will see in the

> intrductions the elements of Freirianism that Ditmar

> points to. 

> 

> 		  

> 

> 		Andres 

> 

=== message truncated ===>
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