Andrea,


>>"One of the great merits of the Chinese Cultural

> Revolution was its 

> rejection of static, antidialectical or

> overconservative concepts of 

> China's history.  Here there seems to be a permanent

> mobilization of 

> the people in the sense of consciously creating and 

> re-creating 

> society.  In China, to be conscious is not a slogan

> or a ready-made 

> idea.  To be conscious is a radical way of being, a

> way characteristic 

> of humanity."<<


Which part do you not like? I think rejecting static
top down conservative imperialist thinking is a good
thing. The only good thing the British helped do in
India was dismantle Indian royalty. (Pity they haven't
had the backbone to do  it in their own backyard!) As
with every political ideology, practice is the hardest
part. Look at the so-called democracies of the world:
show me one and I will show you human rights abuses.

Another thing I noticed:

1 Freire was commenting on China and Chinese policy.
2. The second example you picked was a specific
context: a horrific one, meant to shock. And the
observation of a man of an event. We don't know what
Freire said about Tianmen Square. It might have been a
better argument had you picked two quotes from Freire
pre and post Tianmen Square. The way you presented the
two examples, seemed provocative rather than fair.

Carl Rogers once said that the Chinese had very few
emotional expressions because of their facial
features. The idea of cultural differences had not
crossed his mind. Should we  then discard his thoughts
and theory because of his one remark?

Do we take the entire body of a man's work or do we
pick an example of him commenting on an ideology
(ideology, no mention was made of practice) and
thereby condemn him as having fallen for a philosophy
that one personally dislikes and distrusts because of
being socialised by years of negative media within a
cultural context (American) and decide that is what
makes him? I don't know Andrea, my world isn't that
black and white. The Russians were India's friends
after Nehru worked hard on forming the Non Aligned
Movement. America basically blacklisted India and
armed Pakistan to the hilt. Daring to not take sides
made India (America wanted bases on Indian soil and
Nehru and his successors refused any super power that
privilege)a pariah. So whilst I do not have a rosy
picture of life in the ex-USSR (my father was posted
there), I do not have quite such a radical dislike of
things communist/socialist. 

Should we by this token, disregard Marxism, Freire,
and popular education? And should we assume that
because certain countries rave about being defenders
of human rights and democracy that they are? 

I think this string as Andrew stated has run it's
course. We're now getting away from what we started
with Freire: and in my experience, there is no
educator who has had this level of impact on adult
education, popular education and social change in the
truest sense of the word.

Regards,
Ujwala




--- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:


> Colleagues--

> 

> I don't much like to do this, since he may have

> changed his mind after 

> he said this,  but here is Freire speaking (writing,

> with Donaldo 

> Macedo, The Politics of Education, 1985, p. 106)

> about  China:

> 



> 

> OK, now here is a quote from Jim Sterba, a WSJ

> reporter, about Tianamen 

> Square, 1989, 4 years later:

> 

> "....The Chinese capital was in turmoil.  Students

> were camped out in 

> Tiananmen.  Reporters and Television crews from

> around the world had 

> beeni nvited to China to cover   the visit of

> Mikhail Gorbachav, the 

> Soviet Unions Communist party general secretary. 

> But the reporters and 

> cameras quickly focused on the unprecedented student

> demonstrations for 

> democracy in the square that had erupted after the

> April 15 death of Hu 

> Yaobang, the former secretary general of the Chinese

> Communist 

> party...all hel broke loose in the days and weeks

> that followed.  

> Several army divisions were called into Beijing. On

> the evening of June 

> 4,soldiers attacked the demonstrators with bullets,

> bayonets, and 

> tanks, killing hundreds of them and driving the 

> rest from the 

> square...From a balcony of the Beijng Hotel I

> watched a man walk in 

> front of the column of tanks, stop, and raise his

> arms.  The column 

> stopped.  The man refused to move.  He taunted the

> soldiers in the 

> tanks, daring them to run him over or shoot him. 

> Tears rolled down my 

> cheeks as I watched.  It was the bravest act I had

> ever seen.  Then 

> another man came out and led him to the side of  the

> street.  He melted 

> into the crowd."

> 

> --Frankie's Place, pp. 82-83, 2003

> 

> I think it is very important to face these problems

> in reading Freire 

> head on.  Any takers?

> 

> Andrea

> 

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