Hi,

I love it! I think this discussion must be very high
on the SMOG factor then. It seems like a good reality
check, especially when we've been going on about the
unreadability of translations. Maybe all editors need
to run SMOG before they publish articles and books.

Cheers
Ujwala

--- Andrew Pleasant <andrew.pleasant at gmail.com> wrote:


> Hi,

> 

> The SMOG is one of several not incredibly

> sophisticated yet quick and easy

> to use tools that can help begin parse out the

> difficulty of language

> (English only I think). SMOG stands for Simple

> Measure of Gobbledygook. As

> I've been accused of being "really kind of cavalier"

> (hmmm, is that good or

> bad I wonder?) for commenting on an ongoing public

> dialogue I'll add little

> except  to ask isn't that exactly what listservs are

> designed to allow?

> 

> ap

> 

> On 1/10/07, Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Andrew,

> >

> > Are you having us on? What is a SMOG calculator?

> > I am really curious now!

> > Cheers

> > Ujwala

> >

> > --- Andrew Pleasant <andrew.pleasant at gmail.com>

> wrote:

> >

> > > Hello everyone,

> > >

> > > I realize this string(s) has run its course, but

> ...

> > > first I'd like to

> > > publicly acknowledge the patience all

> individuals

> > > have collectively shown in

> > > this discussion in order to maintain community

> and

> > > humanity, openness,

> > > equality, and collective empowerment.

> > >

> > > Just of curiousity, I ran the last lengthy

> message

> > > through an online SMOG

> > > calculator (very imperfect to be sure, but

> quick).

> > > The results --

> > > 12.9level. I also ran a page of Freire quotes

> > > through the same

> > > analysis. The

> > > results - 10.65 level.

> > >

> > > I think we can see that as interest and

> excitement

> > > and defenses and

> > > intellectual passion and desire to reach shared

> > > understanding rise, we all

> > > can slip in our own use of 'plain' language.

> Perhaps

> > > while not permanently

> > > excusing, we can understand (which is a real

> goal of

> > > literacy, no?) that

> > > Freire and Shakespeare and Marx and Foucault and

> a

> > > long, long list of other

> > > great thinkers may have done the same in the

> passion

> > > to get their ideas

> > > across.

> > >

> > > We can become so convinced we are right and that

> > > everyone 'gets' us, or

> > > should, that we may forget the power of words,

> of

> > > framing ideas, and how

> > > frames reside not only in the language we

> encounter

> > > but are also in the

> > > language we use. A great challenge across all

> > > literacy levels is to identify

> > > our own biases (frames) so we can look past them

> to

> > > encounter others and

> > > other ideas and continue to seek - be it truth,

> > > justice, personal

> > > fulfillment, knowledge, or the myriad of other

> valid

> > > goals.

> > >

> > > Andrew

> > >

> > > On 1/9/07, Andrea Wilder

> <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Ujwala,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The image I brought up was the image of a

> marxist

> > > leninist state, as

> > > > evidenced by both the USSR and china under

> Mao.

> > > There were many

> > > > discussions in the press about whether  this

> was

> > > true marxism or not,

> > > > or whether marxism existed as a utopian vision

> > > (utopia = "nowhere.")

> > > > that could  never  be realized.  The

> indicators of

> > > marxism I rattled

> > > > off are kind of the commonly/popularly held

> > > attributes of a marxist

> > > > state.  So we've got four problems:  1)   

> popular

> > > definition, 2)

> > > > academic definition, 3) actual behavior and 4)

> > > outcomes.

> > > >

> > > > As spoken about commonly in this country

> socialism

> > > has the same problem

> > > > of definitional incoherence.  It is popularly

> > > used as a euphemism for

> > > > marxism.  England's form of health insurance

> is

> > > often described as

> > > > "socialistic" in a pejorative way, as is

> Canada's

> > > health  system.In

> > > > this country  the two examples are often

> talked

> > > about as "the

> > > > government taking over."  Yes,   in my opinion

> > > there is a problem with

> > > > definitions, I am calling this "definitional

> > > incoherence."  Where I

> > > > come from, the United States, it  is used as a

> > > scare word.

> > > >

> > > > In a piece I read about Sao Tome and Principe

> it

> > > seemed clear to the

> > > > critic (examples given) that Freire was  using

> a

> > > top down approach  to

> > > > the use of his workbooks  in teaching.   It

> > > certainly looked that way

> > > > to me, also.  I do not have the article at my

> > > fingertips, but the

> > > > author as I recall had set out to do a

> > > comprehensive critique of

> > > > Freire--i think he was English, maybe

> Australian,

> > > not an American, i

> > > > could be wrong on this.

> > > >

> > > > Piaget's writing is rather stiff at some

> points,

> > > also.  I  think this

> > > > was a translation, also, that I read.  It is

> > > really hard to know what

> > > > an author is saying until  you can see the

> > > pertinent behaviors

> > > >

> > > > Yes, one needs examples, they are very useful

> to

> > > understand exactly how

> > > > theory  is translated into practice. Your

> > > experience is obviously

> > > > really useful in this discussion.

> > > >

> > > >   Let's take Kerala, of which I  know little,

> but

> > > I do know enough so

> > > > that I need to learn more--Kerala i have heard

> > > talked about informally

> > > > as having some "communist" aspects.  i don't 

> know

> > > what that means,

> > > > meaning, I don't know what is being referred

> to,

> > > so it's a good thing

> > > > to look at behaviors.

> > > >

> > > > Here is a quote from Wikipedia on Kerala: 

> "Social

> > > reforms enacted in

> > > > the late `19th century by Cochin and

> Travancore

> > > were expanded upon by

> > > > post-independence governments, making Kerala

> among

> > > the longest-lived,

> > > > healthiest, most gender-equitable, and most

> > > literate regions outside of

> > > >   the developed countries.  However, Kerala's

> 

=== message truncated ===>
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