I'm a lurker in this discusion but I really appreciate the insights and 
experiences you are relating - since I live in rural Canada mostly my 
students have included very few "Asians" - but all your wardings about be 
careful with cultural sensitivites certainly apply to my work with the First 
Nations students who are most of my student body - I notice that I have not 
announced I'm white - another assumption I make all the time.
Thanks again.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ujwala Samant" <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>
To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List" 
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 4:12 PM
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 874] Re: treatment of women around the world



> Hello,

>

>> Great discussion on an important subject.  I've read

>> about most  of the

>> problems around the world brought up in the

>> discussion and am not  surprised to

>> hear of the ones I hadn't.  They all seem to be

>> alike anyway.  I agree with

>> those who say that it will take a major  movement,

>> or a combination of efforts, at

>> various geopolitical levels to  combat these

>> atrocities.<<

>

> For most part, I agree, but I believe that the efforts

> need to come from within, not an externally imposed

> view.

>

>

>> In various assignments with the Air Force during my

>> thirty-plus year  career,

>> I served in several areas where women were

>> restricted and/or  exploited.  I

>> was in Saudi Arabia when we had a base there in the

>> late  1950's (yes, I'm old)

>> and was aware that local women did not get out much

>> and  had to be veiled in

>> back from head to foot when they did. <<

>

> I am a bit concerned by your statement because the

> assumption is that they protested or did not want to

> be veiled. I find it equally disturbing to see bare

> flesh everywhere. Why is being covered up seen as more

> disturbing that seeing flesh? I find the way that most

> cultures in seriously warm countries have a more

> appropriate way of dressing to cope with the heat than

> those that live in cold countries. Nobody seems to

> protest the European women who wear scarves to cover

> their heads or Amish women who dress in long black

> frocks.... the familiar is easier to understand and

> condone than the unfamiliar? And we won't discuss

> priests and nuns in their frankly scary black attire

> and lifestyle!

>

>>>We also read

>> about and discussed the

>> ways in which the males dominated the culture ("just

>>  say, 'I divorce thee,'

>> three times and you're single.") <<

>

> I am not sure if you are aware of this but it is not

> as simple as that. Islam requires witnesses, credible

> witnesses in public when a man says that to a woman.

> Like with all religions, men have co-opted and

> translated religion to suit their needs and fancies.

> Males do dominate cultures, everywhere. I find that in

> some cultures, the domination is more obvious than

> others. You are not single, you are divorced. And in

> Islam, unlike say Hinduism, being divorced is

> traumatic, BUT you can marry again. Should we assume,

> by the same token, that, given the high divorce rates

> in the west, that the words "I do" mean as little as

> saying "I divorce thee"?

>

>>>During the

>> Vietnam War era, I spent three

>> years in Thailand (accompanied by my family,

>> fortunately), and still became

>> aware of the "bar-girl culture" that existed in

>> Thailand, Vietnam, and Laos. <<

>

> I am sincerely optimistic that your family and you

> learned more about Thai culture than merely the

> bar-girl culture....

>

>>>The

>> American military only gave a big boost  to an

>> already existing economy.

>> Many of these young girls were sold by  their

>> families and were virtual slaves of

>> the bar owners.<<

>

> For more information, please check out the ECPAT and

> Anti-Slavery International websites? When I interned

> at the International Peace Bureau, Geneva, I read some

> horrific reports by Irish priests about the sex

> holidays taken by Westerners. During the tsunami, one

> of the biggest problems was children who disappeared.

> Unfortunately, only the Swedish boy who was taken by a

> German (I think) tourist made the news, here in

> France. The American military not only gave a solid

> boost, it helped keep quite a few people in business

> and as you said, now tourism continues to maintain it.

>

>> Incidentally, here is a stab at answering the recent

>> question of what is an

>> Asian (or Asia?).  On the west side, I believe Iran

>> is considered part  of

>> Asia, while Iraq and Turkey are part of Europe (I'm

>> looking at a  National

>> Geographic map of the world).  From the Northeast

>> border of Iran, go north on the

>> Caspian shore to the eastern border of  Kazakhstan.

>> Trace it to the Ural

>> Mountains which run north to the Arctic  Ocean.

>> Everything east that is Asia all

>> the way to Japan and the  Philippine Islands.  I

>> can't say how for South to go

>> into the  Indonesian Archipelago which could Pacific

>> Islanders, but that leaves

>> the part  of Malaysia on the mainland up the air as

>> they're the same people

>> that are in  the islands.  Anyway, that's pretty

>> close.<<

>

> I just won the UK's Asian Women of Achievement Award

> for Social and Humanitarian work. In their terms, Asia

> includes:(and I quote, or cut and paste)

>

> [1] any part of the national territory of a country

> with national territory on the African-Eurasian land

> mass, excluding Europe and Africa. The boundary with

> Europe is taken to be the most direct line connecting

> the Dardanelles, the Sea of Marmora, the Bosphorus,

> the Black Sea, the ridges of the Caucasus, the Caspian

> Sea, the Ural River, and the Ural Mountains, to Novaya

> Zemlya. The boundary with Africa is taken to be the

> line of the Suez Canal. and

>

> [2] the national territories of Bahrain, Brunei,

> Cyprus, East Timor, Indonesia, Japan, the Maldives,

> Mauritius, the Phillipines, the Seychelles, and Sri

> Lanka. <<

>

> Quite vast eh?

>

>>> One of the biggest disappointments I've experienced

>> started in the 1980's

>> which was the last decade of my Air Force career.  A

>> larger part of our  force

>> was female and there were some problems to deal

>> with, but there was a lot  of

>> guidance coming down from the Chain of Command and

>> through the personnel

>> system.  Some of it helped me directly since five of

>> my 10 immediate  subordinate

>> managers were women, I could use the guidance.  All

>> of it was  great to pass

>> down to my managers (especially the males) for

>> dealing with  their sections.  I

>> left the Air Force thinking they had this situation

>> in  order.  Then, twenty

>> years lately came the rape and abuse scandals in the

>>  Air Force Academy, the

>> very summit of the Service's leadership  training

>> system. Add to that, the

>> slow-rolling of the reported  complaints by the

>> commanders and it looked like the

>> Air Force didn't know  (or care) how to handle a

>> co-ed force at all and never

>> did.  I blame the  leadership - at the highest

>> levels for the slip.<<

> Coming from a Naval family myself (dad's a retired and

> decorated submariner), I am sad to hear that.

>

>> Can we help women in our literacy training??  I

>> believe so, in a  number of

>> ways, most already discussed, but here goes.  First,

>> our literacy  training

>> will give them the power to represent themselves in

>> the world. <<

>

> Cultural sensitivity would be fabulous too. The case

> of the American female soldier who won the right to

> wear shorts in Saudi Arabia comes to mind. Obviously

> she had no intention of or clue perhaps of the

> cultural crime she was committing. I am both Hindu and

> Indian, and am not used to having such strictures. But

> when my dad's ship was in Saudi, my mum had to wear

> the burqa, everytime she stepped ashore. Needless to

> say, she stayed aboard and prayed for a swift

> departure.

>

> It  can also add

>> to their dignity from the newly gained skills and

>> from the positive  feedback

>> we give.  Since I didn't notice a male name in any

>> of the  discussants, this

>> is preaching to the choir,<<

>

> I often wonder why there are such few male

> discussants... any ideas, anyone? I see men discussing

> ESOL, Workplace Literacy and Techniracy, but few seem

> to be active participants on this list. Do the topics

> make them uncomfortable? Do they not work with women

> students? Are there much fewer men in this field? Do

> these issues not concern their learners, and them?

>

>> Talking too much!!<<

> No, keep talking, your mail was interesting! Thanks.

> :-)

>

>  Summary!  I think we can all

>> help women in  various small

>> ways through our literacy training and through the

>> programs.   We can also be

>> on the lookout for problems and hopefully make some

>> good referrals.  If

>> there problems in our communities as those

>> discussed (Atlanta), we can support

>> them by either individual or financial (or  both)

>> input.  If the literacy

>> organization wants to, they could get  involved,

>> too, but watch out for your

>> stakeholders.  Another way is to  support people who

>> are trying to become

>> policymakers that we believe will  introduce

>> policies that will make our society better.<<

>

> How about making learners (we do that in our

> programmes in South Asia) proactive, by making them

> advocates for their rights? How can we accomplish

> this? We have found that in the field, the only way to

> make programmes sustainable is training people in

> civil rights, and how to advocate for them.

>

> Cheers,

> Ujwala

>

>

>

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