[PovertyRaceWomen 1204] Re: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 11, Issue 32
Yankwitt Ira (79K755)
IYankwitt at schools.nyc.gov
Thu Sep 27 11:29:26 EDT 2007
Jonathan Kozol had/has been fasting to protest NCLB (I don't know if he
still is). Anyone interested can read his explanation of why he is so
passionately protesting NCLB at
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-kozol.
Ira Yankwitt
Director of Program Initiatives
Office of Adult and Continuing Education
NYC Department of Education
-----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:24 AM
To: povertyracewomen at nifl.gov
Subject: PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 11, Issue 32
Send PovertyRaceWomen mailing list submissions to
povertyracewomen at nifl.gov
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
povertyracewomen-request at nifl.gov
You can reach the person managing the list at
povertyracewomen-owner at nifl.gov
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of PovertyRaceWomen digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. [PovertyRaceWomen 1201] Re: NCLB (Andrea Wilder)
2. [PovertyRaceWomen 1202] Re: NCLB (Andrea Wilder)
3. [PovertyRaceWomen 1203] Re: name for list (Katherine G)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:14:50 -0400
From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1201] Re: NCLB
To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <2b5c89e8baa98e0873ac3ce523654726 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The article I mentioned: New York Times, September 24, "A Tamer of
Schools Has Plan In New Orleans." Available online.
Andrea
On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:02 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:
> OK, me again.
>
> My example is my niece. She is 16 now, and takes the MCAS with
> resignation, not fear. She is white, as I am, and as her parents are,
> and lives in a wealthy Boston suburb. She is almost an only child,
> her father has two from an earlier marriage. She knows how to ski,
> hike and sail, Spanish is her second language as her mother has
> consulted in higher education in a a South American country. Her
> mother has hiked and traveled all over the world. She has traveled in
> Europe and around the United States. Her father's life is more
> checkered, He lived with his family in a Japanese internment camp.
> But he is a computer engineer who hit Silicon Valley at the right
> time, and is now retired. My niece is a great reader, not a great
> intellect, is more an artistic type, and does fabulous silk screen
> prints. She will go to college.
>
> Now the rule of thumb about intellect (whatever it is, but we kind of
> recognize it) is that 1/2 is given to genes, and 1/2 to environment.
> My niece is adopted, and my cousin doesn't know about the mother's
> genetic make-up, but in turns of advantages (environment) her
> daughter seems to have it all.
>
> Now, Andres is upset about NCLB because he observes something quite
> different in his community. Earlier in the week I mentioned an
> article in the Times which describes the work of the New Orleans
> School Superintendent. He is much more of a Deweyian model
> superintendent , who sees his job as beginning where the parents
> leave off. This starts with three hot meals a day,. A washing
> machine was not mentioned, but I bet one of his schools has one. The
> school day has been lengthened. Many family lives are chaotic. There
> are some other policies he has put in place, I can't remember.
> However, there should be medical attention--checkups, meds, teeth, eye
> glasses--in school. Basically, the environment is zilch for the kids,
> and the Super is trying to change it.
>
> So when kids do badly in the NAEP or the state equivalent of the MCAS,
> it really is environment we are talking about. This is what
> standardized tests are registering--lousy environments, or not so good
> environments or could be better environments. And all states should
> use the NAEP, so we get comparable answers, and can find out where the
> problems are, and they can be advertised this way. Then maybe people
> will start to do something and change what happens in schools. For
> children who are hungry, whose families have chaotic lives, to be
> judged by a NCLB test is both inhuman and deeply stupid.
>
> Andrea
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:18 PM, Doris Harris wrote:
>
>> I'll bite.
>> ?
>> The reason that I did not respond to the previous email by Andres was
>> because I am mainly observing this list for a class I am taking.? I
>> am, however, interested in his thoughts and figured that those who
>> are more 'involved' and active on the listserv would contribute.?
>> However, since that hasn't really happened I'll say what I gathered
>> (my POV) from his original email.
>> ?
>> NCLB could indeed be considered racist when looking at the
>> consequences of it.? I am in Georgia.? Education is really bad if you
>> live in a rural community outside of the?4 major cities, and I really
>> don't think it is better here in Atlanta.? NCLB essentially gives
>> permission to? some educators to simply pass their students.? It
>> doesn't make them care more about the students, it fosters 'teaching
>> for the test'.? A lot of your underserved students in these rural
>> communities happen to be black, those who cannot afford private
>> school, don't have a support system, etc.? I'm just speaking from my
>> experience, so I really don't expect anyone to?challenge me on that.?
>> But this is what I have seen.? When I was in middle school (way back
>> when!), the students that the teacher was essentially tired of
>> dealing with (who, coincidently were mostly poor black kids) got
>> 'passed' to the next grade.? We all knew they didn't pass of their
>> own accord b/c let's face it, we saw them everyday.? In high school,
>> a prominent football player was passed from grade to grade and
>> allowed to pass his classes so he could continue to play football.?
>> Needless to say, there was no help there for him when it was time to
>> graduate.? He was black as well.? I'm not saying that the students'
>> parents do not hold responsibility in this, but what an act like NCLB
>> encourages is a "look the other way, not my problem" kind of
>> attitude.? If educators are not given the time and/or resources to do
>> their job, OR if they don't really? want to do their job, how does
>> saying 'your school has to pass' achieve anything?? And the
>> consequence is a group of adults thrown into the world with no real
>> chance at succeeding.? I've heard several stories here in GA about
>> educators who feel as though they HAVE to pass students in order to
>> not lose funding.? That does make NCLB seem racist b/c (1) private
>> schools aren't worried about the money, (2) schools in rich counties
>> could care less about the money (their students are from higher
>> income families with more opportunities to seek help if students need
>> it), and who does that leave?? Poor, mainly black, communities.
>>
>> I'm off my soap box.
>> ?
>> Doris Harris
>> Georgia State University
>> ?
>> On 9/26/07, David J. Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net> wrote: Andres,
>>>
>>> I would be interested to know why you think NCLB is racist. Racist
in
>>> intent and/or racist in its implementation and/or effect? Are there
>>> ways NCLB should be changed so that it is not racist???Does this
have
>>> something to do with adult literacy education or only K-12? If you
>>> have examples of school systems where the effect of NCLB is racist,
>>> what are those examples? Do you have evidence that these examples
are
>>> the rule, or are they the exception, or are the results different in
>>> different states/school systems? If you think NCLB could be changed
>>> so that it doesn't have racist effects on adults and families, I
>>> would be especially interested in hearing your ideas.
>>>
>>> David J. Rosen
>>> djrosen at comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 26, 2007, at 2:00 PM, Muro, Andres wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Comment about title. Who cares? From the current title; I think
>>> > that we
>>> > can get a sense of what the group discusses. Shouldn't we talk
>>> about
>>> > issues rather than the name of this group?
>>> >
>>> > Last week, when the issue was brought up, I commented that I
>>> thought
>>> > that the no child left behind act and wia and nrs were racist. I
>>> asked
>>> > for opinions. I was asked by two participants to expand on that.
>>> > However, nobody else responded to my inquiry.
>>> >
>>> > I take the silence to mean different things.
>>> >
>>> > I am wrong, and the no child left behind wia and nrs are not
>>> racist,
>>> > therefore, we don't need talk about this.
>>> >
>>> > Nobody cares
>>> >
>>> > People are afraid
>>> >
>>> > Shut up leave us alone
>>> >
>>> > I could post responses to those that prompted me to articulate the
>>> > ways
>>> > in which these systems are racists. However, I will take by the
>>> > silence
>>> > that people don't believe that these systems are racist.
>>> Therefore, I
>>> > won't try to push my opinions on the majority who has expertise in
>>> the
>>> > field yet knows that my claims are simply untrue.
>>> >
>>> > However, if people think that these systems are racist, lets stop
>>> > talking about the group's name and focus on the issues.
>>> >
>>> > Andres
>>> >
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~ Ancora Imparo ~----------------------------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/
>> povertyracewomen----------------------------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 8618 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20070927/c5a1
c86a/attachment-0001.bin
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:02:47 -0400
From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1202] Re: NCLB
To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <524844c35be3bb7b2c664cfd24b1b826 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The Teacher I mentioned and her first book: Deborah Meier: "The Power
of their Ideas." After New York, she came to Boston and was the
principal of an elementary school. She was scathing about the MCAS. I
can't remember her critique, google search her. She is now a school
consultant. Another well-regarded principal (name?) was grateful to
the MCAS--his teachers shaped up, he shaped up, got the kids eye
glasses, realigned the curriculum. Scores shot up. Read about it:
"Class and Schools," Richard Rothstein.
Andrea
On Sep 27, 2007, at 9:14 AM, Andrea Wilder wrote:
> The article I mentioned: New York Times, September 24, "A Tamer of
> Schools Has Plan In New Orleans." Available online.
>
> Andrea
>
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:02 PM, Andrea Wilder wrote:
>
>> OK, me again.
>>
>> My example is my niece. She is 16 now, and takes the MCAS with
>> resignation, not fear. She is white, as I am, and as her parents
>> are, and lives in a wealthy Boston suburb. She is almost an only
>> child, her father has two from an earlier marriage. She knows how to
>> ski, hike and sail, Spanish is her second language as her mother has
>> consulted in higher education in a a South American country. Her
>> mother has hiked and traveled all over the world. She has traveled in
>> Europe and around the United States. Her father's life is more
>> checkered, He lived with his family in a Japanese internment camp.
>> But he is a computer engineer who hit Silicon Valley at the right
>> time, and is now retired. My niece is a great reader, not a great
>> intellect, is more an artistic type, and does fabulous silk screen
>> prints. She will go to college.
>>
>> Now the rule of thumb about intellect (whatever it is, but we kind
>> of recognize it) is that 1/2 is given to genes, and 1/2 to
>> environment. My niece is adopted, and my cousin doesn't know about
>> the mother's genetic make-up, but in turns of advantages
>> (environment) her daughter seems to have it all.
>>
>> Now, Andres is upset about NCLB because he observes something quite
>> different in his community. Earlier in the week I mentioned an
>> article in the Times which describes the work of the New Orleans
>> School Superintendent. He is much more of a Deweyian model
>> superintendent , who sees his job as beginning where the parents
>> leave off. This starts with three hot meals a day,. A washing
>> machine was not mentioned, but I bet one of his schools has one. The
>> school day has been lengthened. Many family lives are chaotic. There
>> are some other policies he has put in place, I can't remember.
>> However, there should be medical attention--checkups, meds, teeth,
>> eye glasses--in school. Basically, the environment is zilch for the
>> kids, and the Super is trying to change it.
>>
>> So when kids do badly in the NAEP or the state equivalent of the
>> MCAS, it really is environment we are talking about. This is what
>> standardized tests are registering--lousy environments, or not so
>> good environments or could be better environments. And all states
>> should use the NAEP, so we get comparable answers, and can find out
>> where the problems are, and they can be advertised this way. Then
>> maybe people will start to do something and change what happens in
>> schools. For children who are hungry, whose families have chaotic
>> lives, to be judged by a NCLB test is both inhuman and deeply stupid.
>>
>> Andrea
>>
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:18 PM, Doris Harris wrote:
>>
>>> I'll bite.
>>> ?
>>> The reason that I did not respond to the previous email by Andres
>>> was because I am mainly observing this list for a class I am
>>> taking.? I am, however, interested in his thoughts and figured that
>>> those who are more 'involved' and active on the listserv would
>>> contribute.? However, since that hasn't really happened I'll say
>>> what I gathered (my POV) from his original email.
>>> ?
>>> NCLB could indeed be considered racist when looking at the
>>> consequences of it.? I am in Georgia.? Education is really bad if
>>> you live in a rural community outside of the?4 major cities, and I
>>> really don't think it is better here in Atlanta.? NCLB essentially
>>> gives permission to? some educators to simply pass their students.?
>>> It doesn't make them care more about the students, it fosters
>>> 'teaching for the test'.? A lot of your underserved students in
>>> these rural communities happen to be black, those who cannot afford
>>> private school, don't have a support system, etc.? I'm just speaking
>>> from my experience, so I really don't expect anyone to?challenge me
>>> on that.? But this is what I have seen.? When I was in middle school
>>> (way back when!), the students that the teacher was essentially
>>> tired of dealing with (who, coincidently were mostly poor black
>>> kids) got 'passed' to the next grade.? We all knew they didn't pass
>>> of their own accord b/c let's face it, we saw them everyday.? In
>>> high school, a prominent football player was passed from grade to
>>> grade and allowed to pass his classes so he could continue to play
>>> football.? Needless to say, there was no help there for him when it
>>> was time to graduate.? He was black as well.? I'm not saying that
>>> the students' parents do not hold responsibility in this, but what
>>> an act like NCLB encourages is a "look the other way, not my
>>> problem" kind of attitude.? If educators are not given the time
>>> and/or resources to do their job, OR if they don't really? want to
>>> do their job, how does saying 'your school has to pass' achieve
>>> anything?? And the consequence is a group of adults thrown into the
>>> world with no real chance at succeeding.? I've heard several stories
>>> here in GA about educators who feel as though they HAVE to pass
>>> students in order to not lose funding.? That does make NCLB seem
>>> racist b/c (1) private schools aren't worried about the money, (2)
>>> schools in rich counties could care less about the money (their
>>> students are from higher income families with more opportunities to
>>> seek help if students need it), and who does that leave?? Poor,
>>> mainly black, communities.
>>>
>>> I'm off my soap box.
>>> ?
>>> Doris Harris
>>> Georgia State University
>>> ?
>>> On 9/26/07, David J. Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net> wrote: Andres,
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to know why you think NCLB is racist. Racist
>>>> in
>>>> intent and/or racist in its implementation and/or effect? Are there
>>>> ways NCLB should be changed so that it is not racist???Does this
>>>> have
>>>> something to do with adult literacy education or only K-12? If you
>>>> have examples of school systems where the effect of NCLB is racist,
>>>> what are those examples? Do you have evidence that these examples
>>>> are
>>>> the rule, or are they the exception, or are the results different
in
>>>> different states/school systems? If you think NCLB could be changed
>>>> so that it doesn't have racist effects on adults and families, I
>>>> would be especially interested in hearing your ideas.
>>>>
>>>> David J. Rosen
>>>> djrosen at comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 26, 2007, at 2:00 PM, Muro, Andres wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Comment about title. Who cares? From the current title; I think
>>>> > that we
>>>> > can get a sense of what the group discusses. Shouldn't we talk
>>>> about
>>>> > issues rather than the name of this group?
>>>> >
>>>> > Last week, when the issue was brought up, I commented that I
>>>> thought
>>>> > that the no child left behind act and wia and nrs were racist. I
>>>> asked
>>>> > for opinions. I was asked by two participants to expand on that.
>>>> > However, nobody else responded to my inquiry.
>>>> >
>>>> > I take the silence to mean different things.
>>>> >
>>>> > I am wrong, and the no child left behind wia and nrs are not
>>>> racist,
>>>> > therefore, we don't need talk about this.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nobody cares
>>>> >
>>>> > People are afraid
>>>> >
>>>> > Shut up leave us alone
>>>> >
>>>> > I could post responses to those that prompted me to articulate
the
>>>> > ways
>>>> > in which these systems are racists. However, I will take by the
>>>> > silence
>>>> > that people don't believe that these systems are racist.
>>>> Therefore, I
>>>> > won't try to push my opinions on the majority who has expertise
>>>> in the
>>>> > field yet knows that my claims are simply untrue.
>>>> >
>>>> > However, if people think that these systems are racist, lets stop
>>>> > talking about the group's name and focus on the issues.
>>>> >
>>>> > Andres
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
>>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~ Ancora Imparo
~----------------------------------------------------
>>> National Institute for Literacy
>>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
>>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/
>>> povertyracewomen----------------------------------------------------
>> National Institute for Literacy
>> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
>> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/
>> povertyracewomen----------------------------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 9504 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20070927/9f51
474f/attachment-0001.bin
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:15:42 -0400
From: "Katherine G" <Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1203] Re: name for list
To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <MHEMKJNHLDIEMGGCCKCCAEOADKAA.Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I took very few standardized tests throughout my k-12 years, and it
probably
still shows. I am neither a proponent of nor a genius at standardized
tests. After listening to teachers complain that they have no time left
to
really teach after preparing students for the Virginia SOL tests, I came
to
the conclusion that yes, a national test might be useful to help
determine
benchmarks, but project based assessments should play a just as
important
role. Andres, project based assessments allow students and teachers to
be
creative, to express themselves, and to really show what they know, what
they can do.
Test results illustrate a limited comprehension of the disciplines; they
say
more about test taking skills than they do learning. Basic skills such
as
handwriting are no longer taught because there simply is not time. It
has
become more important for students to learn to fill in bubbles than to
learn
how to write a legible response (at least in some schools).
That being said, I agree that NCLB, whether intentionally or
unintentionally, has resulted in racial disparity, encouraging a kind of
segregation between our students who come from impoverished
neighborhoods
and those who come from more affluent ones. That "underachieving"
(read:
low test scores) schools encourage families to move their children to
other
schools, penalize staff, faculty and administration, and ultimately do a
disservice to the students and teachers left behind, means NCLB has had
negative results. Yes, schools must have accountability. Yes, teachers
must be qualified. Yes, families need to be encouraged to participate
in
their children's education. But if the school is not supported, does
not
receive enough funding, is over crowded and understaffed, doesn't pay
its
teachers enough, NCLB isn't going to help. It will ultimately hurt.
This
is why you are seeing what you call "racism."
There are other factors involved here as well. School boundaries
sometimes
set up cultural segregation from the start. It is common to see all
"white"
or "all minority" schools, and if the minority schools are under funded
and/or do not receive the kind of support we see in more affluent
schools,
then yes....a form of racism occurs once again through a NCLB policy
that
mandates high test scores and not much more. The same pattern I
illustrated
above takes place in these cases. "Busing" has been used to take care
of
some of these problems, but more needs to be done with school boundaries
to
ensure this dynamic does not continue.
It has been my experience that some schools have been designated
"friendly"
to those with special needs, while others are less than supportive. In
our
area, I have been told this is largely based on the Principals'
perception
of needs--it's his/her decision whether or not to screen marginalized
students for disabilities. Some Principals do not want to support
programs
for children with special needs because it's more expensive. It brings
down
testing statistics. (Depending on the state, some school systems still
include learning disabled children in mainstream testing.) Impoverished
children with special needs are once again relegated to more
disadvantaged
schools, setting them up for failure and eventual drop-out.
In addition, more minority students are "diagnosed" as learning
disabled,
"mentally retarded" or "emotionally disturbed" than other students (see
http://www.charityadvantage.com/aacld/HarvardNewsRelease.asp) These
minority children are often placed in the schools that are more friendly
to
the disabled--but because serving special needs children is more
expensive,
the school can be under funded. So we see the downhill spiral happening
again here: students don't do well so they are misdiagnosed as
disabled.
They are put in schools that can't support their special needs. Their
education continues to decline. The school continues to decline. Do
you
see where this is going?
Finally, let me clarify that I think standards are important. I think a
solid, consistent curriculum is important. But I think relying on
testing
has brought us to a point at which education is no longer education.
It's
testing.
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor
Prince William County Public Schools
Adult Education
-----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:19 PM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1200] Re: name for list
Andres,
Andres
You're being sarcastic, and I wish you wouldn't, it doesn't get the
argument forward, it just stalls out.
I had a lot of standardized tests in school, and they were nationally
given, nationally normed. There was no creativity in them, we just took
them. They were an index, as i said, we (students) didn't pay much
attention
to them, I bet the teachers probably did. I doubt the curriculum changed
at
all because of our scores. We had a fair amount of project based
teaching,
that certainly wasn't assessed. When I was a teacher I did a tone of
projects, it's how the kids learned a lot-- a very interactive class in
a
lot of ways. There's a really well known teacher whose name I forget who
ran
a big high school in New York (Central Park East?) I think she did
projects,
too. She hates the MCAS, as soon as I remember her name I'll give it to
you
and you can get in touch.
Do your schools give the NAEP?
You know, i can change my mind when I hear about something better than
the
solution I have come up with.
Andrea
On Sep 26, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Muro, Andres wrote:
Andrea:
when you went to K-12 and college, did you take a standardized test
every year as a measure of your knowledge. did you take a standardized
test
in every class to show that you have mastered content. Where your k-12
college, teachers tied to a specific content and assessment style
developed
by AIR? Could they get creative?
No, oh well, then you better start again cause any knowledge that
you
may have acquired has no validity.
I can see standardized tests in math even though the focus is more
on
getting the answer right than in understanding the problems, but
standardized test to measure knowledge of reading, literature, social
studies, science? gimme a break.
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Andrea Wilder
Sent: Wed 9/26/2007 5:58 PM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1196] Re: name for list
Andres--
i don't see why NAEP isn't used. I first met it when I worked
administratively in a Boston School. i saw the scores, I didn't
read
the test. I don't see why it isn't used in place of the local/state
tests. It's now double jeopardy. In some states, I have read,
there
is not much agreement between state scores and NAEP scores. I don't
mind the NAEP, a standardized test, being used. How many students
do
we have in schools? I do not see how it is possible to create a
test
that is administered to all the children in the country without it
being standardized. I also do not see how any other type of
assessment could be as rigorous in validity and reliability--and
still
be used with millions of children. Suppose we just use the NAEP? I
believe, am not sure, that the NAEP has been normed for our student
populations.
Back to Seers (international development) "What are we trying to
measure?" Kurt Fischer, Harvard Graduate School of Education, and
his
colleagues, have come up with a "universal ruler " that can be used
both to measure development and to measure curriculum. Neat trick,
eh?
I think this will hit ed. circles like a bomb, soon. The ruler
can
be used with children and adults.
What I think should change is teacher training and curriculum to
align
with how children (and adults) actually learn. An understanding of
development--how people grow and chang--and what development looks
like is essential.
A standardized test is only an instrument, an index,like a
thermometer.
II is possible to teach NOT in a "standardized test" way and still
be
measured by a standardized test. However, X% of the score depends
on
familiarity with the test format.
Performance also depends on health care, eye glasses, fed students.
With poor students and stressed families, schools may have to take
over
more of family functions--in fact, in all humanity, they must.
Longer
school days, meals, exercise.
Sorry I was a grouch before. It's hot here today, and I don't do
well
in the heat. (obviously).
Andrea
On Sep 26, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Muro, Andres wrote:
> Ok, I'll start with the race issue and I'll be brief. I take that
we
> serve ethnically, racially, gender diverse groups. Both pedagogy
and
> content would hopefully address diversity. However, both nrs and
no
> child left behind reduce knowledge to performance in standardized
> tests.
> The need of programs to respond to the demands of these acts
forces
> instruction to be reduced to preparing students to respond to
these
> tests. Therefore, the ability of programs to address diversity by
> incorporating a variety of content and innovative, culture and
gender
> sensitive and diverse practices is seriously hindered.
>
> NRS and nclb assume that there is only one form of valid knowledge
that
> can only be demonstrated and measured by providing one answer in a
> standardized test.
>
> Andres
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine
G
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:31 PM
> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1191] Re: name for list
>
> Andres, I am still interested to hear what you have to say about
racism
> in
> NCLB. Why don't you launch the discussion? Other experts can
feel
> free
> to
> jump in at that time.
>
> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor
>
> Prince William County Public Schools
>
> Adult Education
>
> P.O. Box 389
>
> Manassas, VA 20108
>
> work 703-791-8387
>
> fax 703-791-8889
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
> [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Muro,
Andres
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:01 PM
> To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List; Lilian
H.
> Hill
> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1190] Re: name for list
>
>
>
> Comment about title. Who cares? >From the current title; I think
that
we
> can get a sense of what the group discusses. Shouldn't we talk
about
> issues rather than the name of this group?
>
> Last week, when the issue was brought up, I commented that I
thought
> that the no child left behind act and wia and nrs were racist. I
asked
> for opinions. I was asked by two participants to expand on that.
> However, nobody else responded to my inquiry.
>
> I take the silence to mean different things.
>
> I am wrong, and the no child left behind wia and nrs are not
racist,
> therefore, we don't need talk about this.
>
> Nobody cares
>
> People are afraid
>
> Shut up leave us alone
>
> I could post responses to those that prompted me to articulate the
ways
> in which these systems are racists. However, I will take by the
silence
> that people don't believe that these systems are racist.
Therefore, I
> won't try to push my opinions on the majority who has expertise in
the
> field yet knows that my claims are simply untrue.
>
> However, if people think that these systems are racist, lets stop
> talking about the group's name and focus on the issues.
>
> Andres
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
> ----------------------------------------------------
> National Institute for Literacy
> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
>
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/povertyracewomen/attachments/20070927/3965
59e2/attachment.html
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list
PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen
End of PovertyRaceWomen Digest, Vol 11, Issue 32
************************************************
More information about the PovertyRaceWomen
mailing list
