HI Kearney,
 
Actually, I think you are wrong about where to lay blame for NCLB and
other similar standardized testing frameworks.  You'll have to read my
other couple of responses - I won't repeat what I said here again.
 
Marie Cora
 
-----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Kearney Lykins
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:57 PM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1313] Re: NCLB
 
I vote for thinkers over test-takers too, but the faults being assigned
to NCLB and to standardized testing rightfully belong to teachers,
absent parents, and irresponsible students, not to the testing process
itself.

What's preventing the teacher from requiring students to show their work
on all math assignments during the 190 days of instruction that the NCLB
test is not being administered? What's in the way of teaching
composition the traditional way, and assessing it the traditional way,
yet also administering a single standardized multiple choice test on
grammar, literature, etc... As someone has said here recently, that's
exactly what is done every day at "rich" schools. 

Lest we forget, the need for basic skills classes at American
universities! preceded NCLB by two decades. 

Of course there are limitations to the validity of any multiple-choice
assessment. Their great advantage is the efficiency with which they can
be administered, scored, and analyzed.  However, a NCLB-mandated exam is
only one assessment available to the teacher.  The things that NCLB
cannot measure are still the responsibility of the teachers, parents,
and students.  


Kearney Lykins
 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: Katherine G <Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 11:52:01 AM
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1308] Re: NCLB
In many cases, what NCLB is assessing is test taking skill.  Students
memorize.  They take multiple choice tests that they have been prepared
to take.  Multiple choice tests do not demonstrate learning, especially
from students who just don't do well on standardized tests (I happen to
be one of them).  How can you assess, for example, writing skills by
using a multiple choice test?  Don't you want students to be able to
actually WRITE a paragraph, not just edit someone else's?  And what
about math?  What ever happened to "if you don't show the work, you
won't get full credit"?  Without seeing the process, how can we know
students are really getting it?  This is what NCLB is missing.  They see
test scores and say, "Hey! Great.  Good numbers," without understanding
what those numbers mean.  Do we want a generation of test takers, or do
we want thinkers?  I vote for thinkers.
 
Here's a little bit of what I came up with in the paper:
 
"Second, teachers who teach to the test use questions similar to those
on the test to create lesson plans.  Few if any outside topics are
covered because the focus is to get the students to understand what will
be on the test and how to answer the questions, many of which are
multiple choice.  The negative aspects of teaching to the test are
starkest here:  many students might be able to memorize answers heard in
class but cannot explain what that answer means or how it relates to the
other material.  For example, a student might need to know what a
pronoun is.  The student will learn the definition of a pronoun but will
not know how to use it or identify it in a sentence."
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Kearney Lykins
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:36 AM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1307] Re: NCLB
Katherine,

You seem to be saying that there is a disconnect between "teaching basic
skills" and preparing students to demonstrate their knowledge of the
same. I don't get it.  Don't the NCLB-sanctioned assessments assess
basic skills and knowledge? 

/ Kearney
 
----- Original Message ----
From: Katherine G <Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
To: "The Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy Discussion List"
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2007 11:16:39 AM
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1302] Re: NCLB
Kearney, I've been wading in NCLB for the past week because of a paper I
am
writing, so I am going to jump into this conversation.

First, impoverished schools that do not meet AYP have sanctions taken
against them.  These include everything from changes in management to
encouraging students to transfer to having the government take over the
school. Sanctions have negative ramifications:  talented teachers leave.
Remaining teachers face burnout.  Students are demoralized.  What
happens
when a first grader attends a school with sanctions?

Second, students transfer.  When students transfer, they bring with them
whatever they learned or didn't learn from their previous schools.
Teachers
can't always catch up or catch on to this until the student is late into
high school, at which point, it's a little late to start addressing
problems
that needed to be addressed in middle school. Additionally, when these
students don't pass a test, they can jeopardize AYP which leads back to
sanctions.  It's a downward spiral.


>From the research I've done and from having kids in elementary school,

I can
say it's the foundations that count.  This is no news to most of you who
have worked in education, but in this day of testing, it has become even
more apparent.

Obviously, students who have not passed the tests in the K-8 will have a
harder time passing them in 10-12.  But even worse, because NCLB is
encouraging "teaching to the test" because of threatened sanctions, you
have
students focusing on test taking and not learning basic skills in the
elementary and secondary levels.  If you want to read teachers'
perspective
on this, see
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019
b/80
/29/dc/a0.pdf

Just my two cents.

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor
Prince William County Public Schools
Adult Education
P.O. Box 389
Manassas, VA 20108
work 703-791-8387
fax 703-791-8889

-----Original Message-----
From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Kearney Lykins
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:51 AM
To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1301] Re: NCLB


Andrea,

How does it "hit" poor kids and not rich kids? The test assesses the
basic
skills of everyone. Isn't it critical to know who has them and who
doesn't?
There is a very good reason basic skills are called basic skills: we
have
decided they are necessary. Don't the MCAS results tell schools where
remediation is called for, or where they should concentrate their
efforts?

Kearney





----- Original Message ----
From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>
To: Women and Literacy Discussion List The Poverty Race
<povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 10:27:05 PM
Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1294] NCLB


I said  to someone on the list that I would ask my cousin about her
impressions of the MCAS--the standardized test for graduation in MA.
Her opinion:  the MCAS is a series of basic skills tests that hits poor
kids in poor schools. Richer kids in richer schools already know this
stuff and build on the basics year by year.  Teaching is sequential, so
"teaching to the test" will not work if kids are already behind on
basic skills.  My niece does not study for the test, and no time is
given over to test prep at her public school.  My cousin is
multilingual and has many years of teaching ESOL.

Andrea

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