Some of the problem with dropouts can be helped when
we teach them the basic skills they need in order to
have suceess in school.  But---we need to teach
students the way they learn the easiest.  Thus,
concrete, step-by-step, multisensory teaching.

Anita learntoreadnow
--- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:


> Andres--

> 

> I am talking, I think, about kids-in-school.

> 

> I am not talking about what you do for your adult

> students.  I have 

> read what you have written, and you are the person

> who should know best 

> what works, so I agree with you there.

> 

> Andrea

> 

> On Nov 26, 2007, at 12:25 PM, Muro, Andres wrote:

> 

> >

> > It is not about what we would like you saying or

> not. It is about what 

> > effective pedagogical practice. When you teach

> people in their native 

> > language you don’t deny the other language. You

> can do both. Programs 

> > that do native language literacy also do second

> language. Bilingual 

> > programs are most effective. In fact, native

> English speakers would 

> > benefit from learning a second language too.

> >  

> > Moreover, it is very difficult for people to learn

> a subject in a 

> > language that they don’t know about. You cannot

> learn math or history 

> > in Chinese if you don’t’ know how to speak

> Chinese. On the other hand, 

> > if you learn math and history in English and then

> you learn Chinese, 

> > you will also know math and history in Chinese.

> >  

> > Bilingual models simply teach students academic

> skills in their native 

> > language. That does not mean that they don’t teach

> English.  By the 

> > time children have some fluency in English; they

> also have academic 

> > background on the subjects that they were covering

> in their native 

> > language. So, when they transition into academic

> subjects in English, 

> > they have not fallen behind.

> >  

> > The model that explains this, and I have posted

> this in the past is 

> > called the BICS-CALPS model by Cummins. BICS=

> Basic interpersonal 

> > communication skills. CALPS=Cognitive academic

> language proficiency 

> > skills. In L1 you can go from BICS to CALPS.

> However, you cannot go 

> > from BICS in L1 to CALPS in L2. However, you can

> go from CALPS in L1 

> > to CALPS in L2.

> >  

> > This is the reason that students that come from

> other countries and 

> > have academic skills in their native language

> easily learn academics 

> > in English. Those that have not mastered academic

> proficiency in their 

> > native language have a difficult time learning it

> in a second 

> > language. If you don’t know in you native language

> that a verb is an 

> > action word, an adjective is a descriptor, and a

> noun is a name, it is 

> > going to be very difficult to get it in a

> different language. On the 

> > other hand, if you know what these things are, it

> is going to be easy 

> > to grasp them in another language.

> >  

> > We have a Spanish GED program. Once our students

> complete, we send 

> > them to an academic ESL program. They tend to do

> very well. On the 

> > other hand, those that don’t have academic skills

> in their native 

> > language do very poorly in the ESL program.

> >  

> > Andres

> >  

> >  

> >

> > From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov 

> > [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On

> Behalf Of Andrea Wilder

> > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:19 AM

> > To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy

> Discussion List

> > Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 1442] Re: drop-outs

> >  

> > Hi Andre, Daphne,

> >  

> > When school kids are taught in their home

> language, not the school 

> > language, then I would say that they are being

> denied knowledge of the 

> > mainstream language. Some would not like me saying

> this, doubtless, 

> > but it is the way I do see it, after having

> listened to and read many 

> > opinions.

> >  

> > Suppose those pregnant teenagers came to school,

> were educated 

> > together, and learned how to work with their

> children within a school 

> > setting? Other places do this, why not every

> place?

> >  

> > I read in newspapers small vignettes of schools

> that work for poor 

> > kids--they do the things for the children that

> parents who have more 

> > money do for their own children, automatically.

> The corders of schools 

> > have to be elastic, including in their working day

> these additional 

> > tasks.

> >  

> > Small schools that have succeeded: 1) they are

> small and their classes 

> > are small, 2) the teachers are knowledgeable in

> their subject areas. 

> > 3) teachers check in with family members

> frequently, keeping strong 

> > ties between students , parents, and school, 4 )

> teachers assume that 

> > children can learn, 5) there is discipline and

> rules and expectations 

> > about behavior.

> >  

> > When you start with small children there is not a

> disposition that is 

> > anti-school--you're starting with day care and

> what used to be called 

> > "nursery school."

> >  

> > Are there people on this list serv who have

> managed, created, or 

> > worked in schools with this model? And that enroll

> teenage mothers as 

> > part of a normal high school experience?

> >  

> > Andrea

> >  

> > On Nov 26, 2007, at 8:12 AM, Muro, Andres wrote:

> >>  

> >> Hi Daphne:

> >>  

> >> Actually, this was one of the things that Allan

> Quigley focused on. 

> >> He did studies and found that many k-12 students

> have a poor 

> >> disposition towards traditional learning

> environments. He called them 

> >> resistors. these are the students that end up

> dropping out. When they 

> >> come to ABE contexts, they still have a poor

> disposition towards 

> >> those environments that tend to repeat the same

> format as the k-12 

> >> system.

> >>  

> >> Ogbu also studied resistance of "involuntary

> minorities" towards 

> >> traditional learning environments. he argued that

> "Involuntary 

> >> minorities", or those that have a lower social

> status in a 

> >> society (in California Chicanos and blacks) are

> forced by schools 

> >> to adopt that cultural patterns of the hegemonic

> group. If they do 

> >> they will succeed in school but they will betray

> their own. So, 

> >> minorities are caught between acting "whitie" and

> succeeding in 

> >> school, but being rejected but their own peers,

> or continue to belong 

> >> among their peers and failing in school.  

> >>  

> >> Jim Cummins suggested additive educational

> models, where students 

> >> continued to learn cultural and

> linguistic practices of their peers 

> >> as well as the hegemonic practices. In Oakland,

> it was proposed that 

> >> kids learn the African American Language System

> along with standard 

> >> English, but many were offended by that. In many

> kinders and 

> >> elementary charter schools in California they are

> teaching 

=== message truncated ===>
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