Daniel,

I bet no one on this list wants to put out there in writing their 
internal biases that make themselves look bad--or, I know I don't want 
to.  I can say this--I seek to avoid, in daily life, being with people 
who follow radically different sets of rules.  I get tired of the 
battle of continuous decoding.

Andrea:)

On Apr 27, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Daniel Rizik-Baer wrote:


> I made a mistake in not being specific enough.

>

> I think everyone knows the rules, they just do not know they know them.

> For the rules they do not know, people may know they do not know the

> rules. I think this is why we are uncomfortable in social situations we

>  have never before been in- the fact that we do not feel we fit in

> because there are unspoken rules we do not know about or do not feel we

> posses a solid knowledge of how to act upon those rules.

>

> The "rules" are not specific to poverty, but  are everywhere. But there

> are rules surrounding navigating a world entrenched in poverty. and of

> course, these rules are much more complex than what can be listed.

>

> I am not so sure if your list of "rules is really what we are talking

> about.

>

> >*"If you are poor don't talk about finances in general social

> circles."*

>

> Of course people who are poor talk about finances, It is in the manner

> in

> which finances are discussed that are different. I think the hidden 

> rule

> is more for people who have a great disparity in income not to talk

>  about finances with each other in the way they talk about finances 

> with

> people closer to their income and/or class level.

>

> How many people here have ever felt uncomfortable A) listening to 

> people

> talk about spending exorbitant amounts of money on things you would

> never dream of or B) talked about spending money or saving money to

>  someone who could never dream of doing those things.

>

> > *"For low-income and poor people, and perhaps some working class

> people, reading is a luxury; there are more important things to do than

> reading, like working to keep the lights on and food on the table.  In

>  other words, reading is a bourgeois activity."*

>

> Like i said before, to me this statement is partially incorrect.

> Time-wise, reading and television take the same amount of real-time.

> Reading is considered to be an activity for the *educated, *which of

> course, comes with its own rules.

>

> > *"When people become educated, they change, and will look down upon

> and eventually leave their families."*

>

> I think this is less a fact, and more a fear that many people possess.

>

> These rules are more like:

> - what gang controls which neighborhood and what are their colors or

> other ways of representing their gang? (making sure not to wear 

> anything

> that may put you at risk- the wrong color, a hat cocked to the side in

>  the wrong direction etc.- these are serious rules, you may end up dead

> if you are not careful, indeed many people have)

> - How do you address people of varying capacities in your world

>  - How are women expected to behave (many African American women face

>  the

> stigma of being called loud or obnoxious,or more derogatory, offensive

> and condescending language simply for being more assertive than their

> white counterparts, as well as women of all colors being labeled the

>  same way by men when they stand up for what they believe in)

> - How are men supposed to behave- what are the signifiers of

> masculinity, or what does it mean to be a man?

> - How to address conflict, how to deal with conflict, how to engage in

>  conflict.

> - What form of language is spoken (slang, multiple languages)

> - What topics are discussed and the manner in which it is done

> - eye contact and forms of respect/disrespect (depending on the

> neighborhood, you may not want to make eye contact with anyone,

>  depending on the culture, eye contact may or may not be acceptable. In

> Los Angeles, especially in the early nineties, many people in South

> Central Los Angeles resented Korean-Americans for owning stores in 

> their

>  communities, an issue that is extremley large and complex. Many 

> African

> Americans felt disrespected by the Korean store owners because they

> would not look at theeye contact in that situation is a sign of 

> disrespect in Korea.)

>  - clothing

> - body language

> - who to go to for help, who to go to for justice, what to do if you

> cannot find help or justice

> - people's opinions on authority figures (the police especially),

> people's actions toward authority figures

>  - navigating the blackmarket economy for both legal and illegal things

> - and so much more

>

> One must look at any 'hood as its own world with its own expectations

> about behavior, just like any button-down private university.

> --

> Daniel Rizik-Baer

> Family Literacy Coordinator

> Children Youth and Family Collaborative

>  (818) 442-4407 cell

>

> >  On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:34 AM, David J. Rosen

> <djrosen at comcast.net>

>    > wrote:

>    >

>    > > Daniel,

>    > >

>    > > You say that everyone knows th> examples of what have been

>  referred

>    to as

>    > the "hidden rules, "

>    > > "unspoken rules," "prejudicial norms" or "pressures,

> constraints,

>    > > barriers, biases, forces, power differentials, inequities in

>  power

>    or

>    > > unfair conditions" .

>    > >

>    > > It might be helpful -- it certainly would to me -- if someone

> would

>    > > post a list of  "the [hidden] rules of persons living with the

>     > > effects of poverty, the intersection of these effects with

> gender

>    and

>    > > race and the misunderstandings these can cause in the teaching/

>    > > learning process" in the U.S.

>     > >

>    > >  From this discussion so far, I have gleaned these as possible

>    > > examples of those "hidden" or  "unspoken" rules:

>    > >

>    > > • If you are poor don't talk about finances in general social

>     circles.

>    > > • For low-income and poor people, and perhaps some working class

>    > > people, reading is a luxury; there are more important things to

> do

>    > > than reading, like working to keep the lights on and food on the

>     > > table.  In other words, reading is a bourgeois activity.

>    > > • When people become educated, they change, and will look down

> upon

>    > > and eventually leave their families.

>    > > • Working hard and studying hard may lead to success, but it

>  depends

>    > > greatly on one's economic, ethnic, and gender circumstances.

>    > > • The hidden rules for any community or culture are culturally

>    > > dependent; in order to function in another culture one needs to

>  know

>    > > what those rules are.... For example, when I visited a friend's

>    > > family in a dangerous part of LA, she explained to me what the

>    > > 'rules' were for a white girl at that time and in that place.

>     > >

>    > > What are some other unspoken rules for the poor? How do they

>    > > intersect with gender and race? What misunderstandings do they

> cause

>    > > in the teaching/learning process?

>     > >

>    > > Is all of this informed by Paulo Freire?  Or is it informed by

> Ruby

>    > > Payne? Or someone else? It might make a difference in what the

>    > > unspoken rules are. It certainly makes a difference in what you

>     think

>    > > we should do about the unspoken rules.

>    > >

>    > > David J. Rosen

>    > > djrosen at comcast.net

>

> -- 

> Daniel Rizik-Baer

>  Family Literacy Coordinator

> Children Youth and Family Collaborative

> (818) 442-4407 cell----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

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