Daniel,

Thank you for this articulate clarification and refocusing of the  
discussion.

Brett
On Apr 27, 2008, at 4:34 PM, Daniel Rizik-Baer wrote:


> I made a mistake in not being specific enough.

>

> I think everyone knows the rules, they just do not know they know  

> them.

> For the rules they do not know, people may know they do not know the

> rules. I think this is why we are uncomfortable in social  

> situations we

> have never before been in- the fact that we do not feel we fit in

> because there are unspoken rules we do not know about or do not  

> feel we

> posses a solid knowledge of how to act upon those rules.

>

> The "rules" are not specific to poverty, but  are everywhere. But  

> there

> are rules surrounding navigating a world entrenched in poverty. and of

> course, these rules are much more complex than what can be listed.

>

> I am not so sure if your list of "rules is really what we are talking

> about.

>

> >*"If you are poor don't talk about finances in general social

> circles."*

>

> Of course people who are poor talk about finances, It is in the manner

> in

> which finances are discussed that are different. I think the hidden  

> rule

> is more for people who have a great disparity in income not to talk

> about finances with each other in the way they talk about finances  

> with

> people closer to their income and/or class level.

>

> How many people here have ever felt uncomfortable A) listening to  

> people

> talk about spending exorbitant amounts of money on things you would

> never dream of or B) talked about spending money or saving money to

> someone who could never dream of doing those things.

>

> > *"For low-income and poor people, and perhaps some working class

> people, reading is a luxury; there are more important things to do  

> than

> reading, like working to keep the lights on and food on the table.  In

> other words, reading is a bourgeois activity."*

>

> Like i said before, to me this statement is partially incorrect.

> Time-wise, reading and television take the same amount of real-time.

> Reading is considered to be an activity for the *educated, *which of

> course, comes with its own rules.

>

> > *"When people become educated, they change, and will look down upon

> and eventually leave their families."*

>

> I think this is less a fact, and more a fear that many people possess.

>

> These rules are more like:

> - what gang controls which neighborhood and what are their colors or

> other ways of representing their gang? (making sure not to wear  

> anything

> that may put you at risk- the wrong color, a hat cocked to the side in

> the wrong direction etc.- these are serious rules, you may end up dead

> if you are not careful, indeed many people have)

> - How do you address people of varying capacities in your world

>  - How are women expected to behave (many African American women face

> the

> stigma of being called loud or obnoxious,or more derogatory, offensive

> and condescending language simply for being more assertive than their

> white counterparts, as well as women of all colors being labeled the

> same way by men when they stand up for what they believe in)

> - How are men supposed to behave- what are the signifiers of

> masculinity, or what does it mean to be a man?

> - How to address conflict, how to deal with conflict, how to engage in

> conflict.

> - What form of language is spoken (slang, multiple languages)

> - What topics are discussed and the manner in which it is done

> - eye contact and forms of respect/disrespect (depending on the

> neighborhood, you may not want to make eye contact with anyone,

> depending on the culture, eye contact may or may not be acceptable. In

> Los Angeles, especially in the early nineties, many people in South

> Central Los Angeles resented Korean-Americans for owning stores in  

> their

> communities, an issue that is extremley large and complex. Many  

> African

> Americans felt disrespected by the Korean store owners because they

> would not look at theeye contact in that situation is a sign of  

> disrespect in Korea.)

> - clothing

> - body language

> - who to go to for help, who to go to for justice, what to do if you

> cannot find help or justice

> - people's opinions on authority figures (the police especially),

> people's actions toward authority figures

> - navigating the blackmarket economy for both legal and illegal things

> - and so much more

>

> One must look at any 'hood as its own world with its own expectations

> about behavior, just like any button-down private university.

> --

> Daniel Rizik-Baer

> Family Literacy Coordinator

> Children Youth and Family Collaborative

> (818) 442-4407 cell

>

> >  On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:34 AM, David J. Rosen

> <djrosen at comcast.net>

>    > wrote:

>    >

>    > > Daniel,

>    > >

>    > > You say that everyone knows th> examples of what have been

> referred

>    to as

>    > the "hidden rules, "

>    > > "unspoken rules," "prejudicial norms" or "pressures,

> constraints,

>    > > barriers, biases, forces, power differentials, inequities in

> power

>    or

>    > > unfair conditions" .

>    > >

>    > > It might be helpful -- it certainly would to me -- if someone

> would

>    > > post a list of  "the [hidden] rules of persons living with the

>    > > effects of poverty, the intersection of these effects with

> gender

>    and

>    > > race and the misunderstandings these can cause in the teaching/

>    > > learning process" in the U.S.

>    > >

>    > >  From this discussion so far, I have gleaned these as possible

>    > > examples of those "hidden" or  "unspoken" rules:

>    > >

>    > > • If you are poor don't talk about finances in general social

>    circles.

>    > > • For low-income and poor people, and perhaps some working  

> class

>    > > people, reading is a luxury; there are more important things to

> do

>    > > than reading, like working to keep the lights on and food on  

> the

>    > > table.  In other words, reading is a bourgeois activity.

>    > > • When people become educated, they change, and will look down

> upon

>    > > and eventually leave their families.

>    > > • Working hard and studying hard may lead to success, but it

> depends

>    > > greatly on one's economic, ethnic, and gender circumstances.

>    > > • The hidden rules for any community or culture are culturally

>    > > dependent; in order to function in another culture one needs to

> know

>    > > what those rules are.... For example, when I visited a friend's

>    > > family in a dangerous part of LA, she explained to me what the

>    > > 'rules' were for a white girl at that time and in that place.

>    > >

>    > > What are some other unspoken rules for the poor? How do they

>    > > intersect with gender and race? What misunderstandings do they

> cause

>    > > in the teaching/learning process?

>    > >

>    > > Is all of this informed by Paulo Freire?  Or is it informed by

> Ruby

>    > > Payne? Or someone else? It might make a difference in what the

>    > > unspoken rules are. It certainly makes a difference in what you

>    think

>    > > we should do about the unspoken rules.

>    > >

>    > > David J. Rosen

>    > > djrosen at comcast.net

>

> -- 

> Daniel Rizik-Baer

> Family Literacy Coordinator

> Children Youth and Family Collaborative

> (818) 442-4407 cell

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

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Brett Griffiths
bgriff at umich.edu or b.griffiths at comcast.net
Doctoral student,
Joint Program of English and Education, U of Michigan


  Man is torn away from his primary union with nature, which  
characterizes animal existence. Having at the same time reason and  
imagination, he is aware of his aloneness and separateness; of his  
powerlessness and ignorance; of the accidentalness of his birth and  
death. He could not face this state of being for a second if he could  
not find new ties with his fellow man which replace the old ones  
regulated by instincts. Even if all his physiological needs were  
satisfied, he would experience his state of aloneness and  
individuation as a prison from which he had to break in order to  
preserve his sanity. (...) the necessity to unite with other living  
beings, to be related to them, is an imperative need on the  
fulfilment of which man's sanity depends. This need is behind all  
phenomena which constitute the whole gamut of intimate human  
relations, of all passions which are called love in the broadest  
sense of the word
Erich Fromm, The Sane Society






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