Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We call
people by their first names." Or, "It's normal to call
people by their first names."
Ujwala
--- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com> wrote:


> Ujwala-

> 

> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they are

> > just not in plain site.

> > Knowing that they are there is a big step towards

> > understanding.<<

> 

> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the first

> statement. Rules are learned, through observation,

> education and interaction. How many of our learners

> have positive, direct, educational interaction upon

> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> first

> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not an

> invitation to discuss your state of mind or being. I

> could go on..... I think there are things to be

> learned through interaction, and some through

> teaching."

> 

> 

> What I meant is much closer to what you described.

> 

> What I mean is that people know the hidden rules,

> and yet do not know that

> they know them, Things as simple as which hand to

> shake hands with, or many

> other things that are cultural that may seem

> "natural," but in fact are

> socially constructed.

> 

> So just as you said, rules are learned- but people

> learn them without really

> realizing they are being socialized into a

> particular culture.

> 

> This is why I think it is so important for our youth

> to have the opportunity

> for world travel- to see how other cultures express

> their humaness, to see

> the simliarties and differences in how people live

> their lives may help our

> youth to open their minds to see how their lives are

> socially constucted at

> home.

> 

> 

> Like Katherine said:

> 

> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> first

> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not an

> invitation to discuss your state of mind or being.

> 

> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why should you

> hide how you are

> feeling?

> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I don't,

> then I shouldn't bother

> asking!*

> 

> Well yes, if we took the statement at face value.

> But imagine if for

> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

> actually told you about

> their life, allo the trials and tribulations etc. We

> would never get through

> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

> "hello" while appearing to

> show caring, which I do not think is necessarily a

> bad thing. Certain people

> really do want to know- close friends and family.

> 

> *True we don't call everyone by their first name,

> but some of that depends

> on

> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger shakes

> my hand and says, "I'm

> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

> same thing in return?

> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have (or

> don't have).*

> **

> I think this is a great example, especially because

> so many high schol

> teachers and college professors from the 60's on up

> have attempted to break

> down the academic/superiority "rules" created by

> calling them by their last

> names by asking their students to call them by their

> first names. A perfect

> exaqmple of people breaking social rules on purpose.

> 

> A cultural rule that has been legalized is how

> people attain their last

> names. Did you know that for a woman to change her

> last name to her

> husband's name, it costs under $100, but for a man

> to change his last name

> to his wife's last name costs more than $300. These

> are rules left over from

> before women had the right to vote!

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Katherine

> <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:

> 

> > "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> > comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> first

> > name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not an

> > invitation to discuss your state of mind or being.

> >

> > But don't you think that's sad (except the income

> question in certain

> > work-related contexts where you are usually told

> not to discuss income)?

> >  I

> > mean, if someone asks how you are, why should you

> hide how you are

> > feeling?

> > If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

> don't, then I shouldn't

> > bother

> > asking!  If someone asks me to buy something and

> I'm broke, what is wrong

> > with saying, "Sorry, but I'm broke?"  We're so up

> tight and often

> > dishonest

> > in this culture.  (I'm back to the "hypocrite"

> thing, as you can tell.)

> >

> > True we don't call everyone by their first name,

> but some of that depends

> > on

> > how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

> shakes my hand and says,

> > "I'm

> > Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

> Smith"?  And if he calls

> > ME

> > by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

> same thing in return?

> > These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

> (or don't have).

> >

> > Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> > www.luxuriouschoices.net

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Ujwala Samant" <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>

> > To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy

> Discussion List"

> > <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> >  Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:37 AM

> > Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2109] Re: Mastery

> >

> >

> > >

> > > --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

> wrote:

> > >

> > >> I cannot agree with you more. I definitely do

> think

> > >> of English as an

> > >> amazingly beautiful language as well, with

> intracies

> > >> and innuendo that are

> > >> unmatched throughout the world. I think the

> main

> > >> reason for this is due to

> > >> the fact that English took cues from a myriad

> of

> > >> languages, incorporating so

> > >> many things from so many different places.<<

> > >

> > > As did Urdu, a language created from a blend of

> > > Arabic, Persian, Hindi and every Indian language

> > > spoken on the sub continent!

> > >

> > >

> > >> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they

> are

> > >> just not in plain site.

> > >> Knowing that they are there is a big step

> towards

> > >> understanding.<<

> > >

> > > I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

> first

> > > statement. Rules are learned, through

> observation,

> > > education and interaction. How many of our

> learners

> > > have positive, direct, educational interaction

> upon

> 

=== message truncated ===>
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