Ujwala--

Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded because he was able to  
learn the rules, I think his story is pretty dramatic;  shows what can  
be accomplished when some one has the diligence and desire to learn how  
to behave properly in order to get a job done.

Andrea


On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:


> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We call

> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal to call

> people by their first names."

> Ujwala

> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> Ujwala-

>>

>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they are

>>> just not in plain site.

>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step towards

>>> understanding.<<

>>

>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the first

>> statement. Rules are learned, through observation,

>> education and interaction. How many of our learners

>> have positive, direct, educational interaction upon

>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>> first

>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not an

>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or being. I

>> could go on..... I think there are things to be

>> learned through interaction, and some through

>> teaching."

>>

>>

>> What I meant is much closer to what you described.

>>

>> What I mean is that people know the hidden rules,

>> and yet do not know that

>> they know them, Things as simple as which hand to

>> shake hands with, or many

>> other things that are cultural that may seem

>> "natural," but in fact are

>> socially constructed.

>>

>> So just as you said, rules are learned- but people

>> learn them without really

>> realizing they are being socialized into a

>> particular culture.

>>

>> This is why I think it is so important for our youth

>> to have the opportunity

>> for world travel- to see how other cultures express

>> their humaness, to see

>> the simliarties and differences in how people live

>> their lives may help our

>> youth to open their minds to see how their lives are

>> socially constucted at

>> home.

>>

>>

>> Like Katherine said:

>>

>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>> first

>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not an

>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or being.

>>

>> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why should you

>> hide how you are

>> feeling?

>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I don't,

>> then I shouldn't bother

>> asking!*

>>

>> Well yes, if we took the statement at face value.

>> But imagine if for

>> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

>> actually told you about

>> their life, allo the trials and tribulations etc. We

>> would never get through

>> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

>> "hello" while appearing to

>> show caring, which I do not think is necessarily a

>> bad thing. Certain people

>> really do want to know- close friends and family.

>>

>> *True we don't call everyone by their first name,

>> but some of that depends

>> on

>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger shakes

>> my hand and says, "I'm

>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

>> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

>> same thing in return?

>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have (or

>> don't have).*

>> **

>> I think this is a great example, especially because

>> so many high schol

>> teachers and college professors from the 60's on up

>> have attempted to break

>> down the academic/superiority "rules" created by

>> calling them by their last

>> names by asking their students to call them by their

>> first names. A perfect

>> exaqmple of people breaking social rules on purpose.

>>

>> A cultural rule that has been legalized is how

>> people attain their last

>> names. Did you know that for a woman to change her

>> last name to her

>> husband's name, it costs under $100, but for a man

>> to change his last name

>> to his wife's last name costs more than $300. These

>> are rules left over from

>> before women had the right to vote!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Katherine

>> <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:

>>

>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>> first

>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not an

>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or being.

>>>

>>> But don't you think that's sad (except the income

>> question in certain

>>> work-related contexts where you are usually told

>> not to discuss income)?

>>>  I

>>> mean, if someone asks how you are, why should you

>> hide how you are

>>> feeling?

>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

>> don't, then I shouldn't

>>> bother

>>> asking!  If someone asks me to buy something and

>> I'm broke, what is wrong

>>> with saying, "Sorry, but I'm broke?"  We're so up

>> tight and often

>>> dishonest

>>> in this culture.  (I'm back to the "hypocrite"

>> thing, as you can tell.)

>>>

>>> True we don't call everyone by their first name,

>> but some of that depends

>>> on

>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

>> shakes my hand and says,

>>> "I'm

>>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

>> Smith"?  And if he calls

>>> ME

>>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

>> same thing in return?

>>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

>> (or don't have).

>>>

>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

>>> www.luxuriouschoices.net

>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>> From: "Ujwala Samant" <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>

>>> To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy

>> Discussion List"

>>> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

>>>  Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:37 AM

>>> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2109] Re: Mastery

>>>

>>>

>>>>

>>>> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> I cannot agree with you more. I definitely do

>> think

>>>>> of English as an

>>>>> amazingly beautiful language as well, with

>> intracies

>>>>> and innuendo that are

>>>>> unmatched throughout the world. I think the

>> main

>>>>> reason for this is due to

>>>>> the fact that English took cues from a myriad

>> of

>>>>> languages, incorporating so

>>>>> many things from so many different places.<<

>>>>

>>>> As did Urdu, a language created from a blend of

>>>> Arabic, Persian, Hindi and every Indian language

>>>> spoken on the sub continent!

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they

>> are

>>>>> just not in plain site.

>>>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

>> towards

>>>>> understanding.<<

>>>>

>>>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

>> first

>>>> statement. Rules are learned, through

>> observation,

>>>> education and interaction. How many of our

>> learners

>>>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

>> upon

>>

> === message truncated ===>

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