Andrea and Michael,


Money and a few generations with it makes a difference
in any country. And the way that the different classes
address issues like finances, social niceties, the use
of language, changes with SES. 

Cheers
Ujwala

--- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:


> Michael--

> 

> What you are describing--no surprise--is the

> difference that money  

> makes in this country--money and a couple of

> generations with it.

> 

> Andrea

> 

> On Apr 28, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Michael Tate wrote:

> 

> > The hidden (middle class) rules are hidden, I

> think, mostly because of

> > the impacts of poverty.  Some of the following are

> stereotypical in

> > order to show the rules.  In any economic class

> there are many (maybe

> > mostly) unique individuals who live outside the

> stereotypes.

> >

> > Maintenance is big for the middle class.  Cars are

> serviced regularly;

> > the grass is cut; the house is painted; etc.  Low

> income folks don't

> > have the income that would allow them to "keep"

> this rule generally.

> > They drive their cars until they quit running and

> then look for another

> > "junker".

> >

> > Gentility is another middle class rule. Middle

> class are able to avoid

> > many of the travails of life.  They can buy houses

> in gated  

> > communities.

> > Their kids can go to private schools.  They avoid

> certain topics as not

> > being appropriate during dinner, or to avoid

> putting a guest on the

> > spot.  The "old" Navy had gentility rules for the

> officer's wardroom:

> > "Never talk about women, politics or religion".

> They have refined

> > palates, cultural sophistication, artistic

> sensitivities, etc. as a

> > result of discretionary incomes, class

> expectations, etc.  The poor  

> > live

> > on "beer" budgets; they rarely have the price of

> admission to museums,

> > art galleries, ballet, European holidays, etc. 

> Their conversations are

> > often frank and unvarnished.  Sometimes, they

> reveal too much.  They

> > feel like they don't have much to lose.

> >

> > Reputation is also key for the middle class.  They

> avoid getting

> > involved with scandals, the sleazy and the

> sensational.  They join

> > groups to be with the "right people" and to show

> their sense civic

> > responsibility.  They make donations of time or

> money.  They try to

> > "keep up with the Jones".  They only "let their

> hair down" in certain

> > safe situations.  "What happens in Vegas, stays in

> Vegas." They

> > advertize their professional or family successes,

> and are silent about

> > setbacks and failures, or they retell the problem

> in the best possible

> > light.  The poor may work two jobs and not have

> time for civic

> > activities. In frankly sharing their stories, they

> create the  

> > curriculum

> > of liberation.

> >

> > Career is essential for the middle class.  Over

> their lifetimes, they

> > have ever greater responsibility and satisfaction.

>  They enjoy the

> > esteem of their colleagues.  They are recognized

> by professional  

> > groups.

> > The poor have jobs (if they are lucky).  The get

> recognized for working

> > hard, showing up on time and taking the job

> seriously.  They may have  

> > or

> > have had many unrelated jobs with fluctuating

> levels of responsibility.

> > The job may not provide any sense of satisfaction

> or fulfillment.  The

> > best job allows ample time for family and friends.

>  The best job skills

> > are the barter-able ones:  construction, plumbing,

> electrical,

> > beautician, home health care, catering.

> >

> > The middle class looks to the future (their

> legacy); the low income to

> > the present (daily cycles of inertia and/or

> persistence); the rich to

> > the past (their heritage).

> >

> > Michael Tate

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov

> > [mailto:povertyracewomen-bounces at nifl.gov] On

> Behalf Of Ujwala Samant

> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:32 AM

> > To: The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy

> Discussion List

> > Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2113] Re: Mastery

> >

> >

> > --- Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:

> >

> >> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> >> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> >> first

> >> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

> an

> >> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> being.

> >

> >> But don't you think that's sad (except the income

> >> question in certain

> >> work-related contexts where you are usually told

> not

> >> to discuss income)?  I

> >> mean, if someone asks how you are, why should you

> >> hide how you are feeling?

> >> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

> don't,

> >> then I shouldn't bother

> >> asking!<<

> >

> > "How're you doing?" and "Have a nice day" are

> things I

> > am sorry but when I am in the USA, I don't really

> pay

> > attention to. I just mechanically respond

> > automatically which seems to satisfy the social

> > niceties of that moment. This is a common

> discussion

> > between international students, especially when we

> > first come to America. And we learn the rules,

> slowly

> > but surely.

> >

> >>> If someone asks me to buy something and I'm

> >> broke, what is wrong

> >> with saying, "Sorry, but I'm broke?"  We're so up

> >> tight and often dishonest

> >> in this culture.  (I'm back to the "hypocrite"

> >> thing, as you can tell.)<<

> >

> > I think that's a different situation, where one

> can

> > say , "Sorry chum, I'm broke," or, "I'm not

> > interested."

> >

> >> True we don't call everyone by their first name,

> but

> >> some of that depends on

> >> how they introduce themselves. <<

> >

> > In my case, it was everyone at uni, the profs all

> > introduced themselves by their first names. Then

> the

> > parents of my friends, my sister's in-laws, people

> > tend to introduce themselves by their first names.

> > Aside from my doctor and dentist, everyone else

> seems

> > to introduce themselves by their first names.

> Which

> > for Indians is a bit strange, because our

> > sociocultural norms are different, even today.

> >

> >>> If a stranger shakes

> >> my hand and says, "I'm

> >> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

> >> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

> >> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

> >> same thing in return?

> >> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

> (or

> >> don't have).<<

> >

> > Oh yes, the assumption is to call them by their

> first

> > names. In India (and from my discussions with

> Africans

> > and Asians), generally we rarely refer to elders,

> > strangers, etc by their first names. I used to

> call my

> 

=== message truncated ===



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