My understanding is that if one does not adapt to the
society we live in, life won't be easy. I don't think
it is black or white, having now had to adapt to three
countries outside of all the states my father's naval
job dragged us through. I do like the saying, "Bloom
where you're planted." (Not as easy as it sounds, but
when my father's collection of hybrid roses survived
46C heat in southern India, I grudgingly accepted he
had a point...)

Cheers
Ujwala
--- Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:


> Andrea, are you suggesting we can't do good in the

> world unless we follow 

> the rules?

> 

> "Well behaved women rarely make history."

> 

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> www.luxuriouschoices.net

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: "Andrea Wilder" <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion

> List" 

> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 8:47 PM

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2119] Re: Mastery

> 

> 

> > Ujwala--

> >

> > Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded

> because he was able to

> > learn the rules, I think his story is pretty

> dramatic;  shows what can

> > be accomplished when some one has the diligence

> and desire to learn how

> > to behave properly in order to get a job done.

> >

> > Andrea

> >

> >

> > On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

> >

> >> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We

> call

> >> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal to

> call

> >> people by their first names."

> >> Ujwala

> >> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

> wrote:

> >>

> >>> Ujwala-

> >>>

> >>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they

> are

> >>>> just not in plain site.

> >>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

> towards

> >>>> understanding.<<

> >>>

> >>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

> first

> >>> statement. Rules are learned, through

> observation,

> >>> education and interaction. How many of our

> learners

> >>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

> upon

> >>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or

> income."

> >>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> >>> first

> >>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

> an

> >>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> being. I

> >>> could go on..... I think there are things to be

> >>> learned through interaction, and some through

> >>> teaching."

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> What I meant is much closer to what you

> described.

> >>>

> >>> What I mean is that people know the hidden

> rules,

> >>> and yet do not know that

> >>> they know them, Things as simple as which hand

> to

> >>> shake hands with, or many

> >>> other things that are cultural that may seem

> >>> "natural," but in fact are

> >>> socially constructed.

> >>>

> >>> So just as you said, rules are learned- but

> people

> >>> learn them without really

> >>> realizing they are being socialized into a

> >>> particular culture.

> >>>

> >>> This is why I think it is so important for our

> youth

> >>> to have the opportunity

> >>> for world travel- to see how other cultures

> express

> >>> their humaness, to see

> >>> the simliarties and differences in how people

> live

> >>> their lives may help our

> >>> youth to open their minds to see how their lives

> are

> >>> socially constucted at

> >>> home.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Like Katherine said:

> >>>

> >>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> >>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> >>> first

> >>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

> an

> >>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> being.

> >>>

> >>> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why should

> you

> >>> hide how you are

> >>> feeling?

> >>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

> don't,

> >>> then I shouldn't bother

> >>> asking!*

> >>>

> >>> Well yes, if we took the statement at face

> value.

> >>> But imagine if for

> >>> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

> >>> actually told you about

> >>> their life, allo the trials and tribulations

> etc. We

> >>> would never get through

> >>> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

> >>> "hello" while appearing to

> >>> show caring, which I do not think is necessarily

> a

> >>> bad thing. Certain people

> >>> really do want to know- close friends and

> family.

> >>>

> >>> *True we don't call everyone by their first

> name,

> >>> but some of that depends

> >>> on

> >>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

> shakes

> >>> my hand and says, "I'm

> >>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

> >>> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

> >>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do

> the

> >>> same thing in return?

> >>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

> (or

> >>> don't have).*

> >>> **

> >>> I think this is a great example, especially

> because

> >>> so many high schol

> >>> teachers and college professors from the 60's on

> up

> >>> have attempted to break

> >>> down the academic/superiority "rules" created by

> >>> calling them by their last

> >>> names by asking their students to call them by

> their

> >>> first names. A perfect

> >>> exaqmple of people breaking social rules on

> purpose.

> >>>

> >>> A cultural rule that has been legalized is how

> >>> people attain their last

> >>> names. Did you know that for a woman to change

> her

> >>> last name to her

> >>> husband's name, it costs under $100, but for a

> man

> >>> to change his last name

> >>> to his wife's last name costs more than $300.

> These

> >>> are rules left over from

> >>> before women had the right to vote!

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Katherine

> >>> <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> >>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> >>> first

> >>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

> an

> >>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> being.

> >>>>

> >>>> But don't you think that's sad (except the

> income

> >>> question in certain

> 

=== message truncated ===



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