Ujwala--

Yes, he was extremely lucky.  As I recall, the porter who rescued him  
had knowledge of western ways, so Mortenson was somewhat understood, as  
a person and as an acceptable member of his western group--he was not  
an oddball.  There were  other factors specific to Mortenson that  
enabled him to do what he did--beyond luck, and having to do with his  
background.

  He was also captured and (briefly) imprisoned when he did NOT follow  
the rules.  He got out of imprisonment when he DID follow the rules.

Read the book.

Andrea

On Apr 29, 2008, at 2:29 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:


> Andrea,

>

> That's the book I am struggling to read, to get into.

> I give him full marks for adapting, that must have

> been extremely hard; given the mountains, the culture

> and the language. I also think he was extremely lucky

> to have found the welcome he received, given those

> areas.

>

> Cheers

> Ujwala

>

>

> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>

>> Ujwala--

>>

>> Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded

>> because he was able to

>> learn the rules, I think his story is pretty

>> dramatic;  shows what can

>> be accomplished when some one has the diligence and

>> desire to learn how

>> to behave properly in order to get a job done.

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>>

>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>>

>>> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We

>> call

>>> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal to

>> call

>>> people by their first names."

>>> Ujwala

>>> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Ujwala-

>>>>

>>>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they

>> are

>>>>> just not in plain site.

>>>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

>> towards

>>>>> understanding.<<

>>>>

>>>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

>> first

>>>> statement. Rules are learned, through

>> observation,

>>>> education and interaction. How many of our

>> learners

>>>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

>> upon

>>>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or

>> income."

>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>> first

>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>> an

>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>> being. I

>>>> could go on..... I think there are things to be

>>>> learned through interaction, and some through

>>>> teaching."

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> What I meant is much closer to what you

>> described.

>>>>

>>>> What I mean is that people know the hidden rules,

>>>> and yet do not know that

>>>> they know them, Things as simple as which hand to

>>>> shake hands with, or many

>>>> other things that are cultural that may seem

>>>> "natural," but in fact are

>>>> socially constructed.

>>>>

>>>> So just as you said, rules are learned- but

>> people

>>>> learn them without really

>>>> realizing they are being socialized into a

>>>> particular culture.

>>>>

>>>> This is why I think it is so important for our

>> youth

>>>> to have the opportunity

>>>> for world travel- to see how other cultures

>> express

>>>> their humaness, to see

>>>> the simliarties and differences in how people

>> live

>>>> their lives may help our

>>>> youth to open their minds to see how their lives

>> are

>>>> socially constucted at

>>>> home.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Like Katherine said:

>>>>

>>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>> first

>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>> an

>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>> being.

>>>>

>>>> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why should

>> you

>>>> hide how you are

>>>> feeling?

>>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

>> don't,

>>>> then I shouldn't bother

>>>> asking!*

>>>>

>>>> Well yes, if we took the statement at face value.

>>>> But imagine if for

>>>> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

>>>> actually told you about

>>>> their life, allo the trials and tribulations etc.

>> We

>>>> would never get through

>>>> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

>>>> "hello" while appearing to

>>>> show caring, which I do not think is necessarily

>> a

>>>> bad thing. Certain people

>>>> really do want to know- close friends and family.

>>>>

>>>> *True we don't call everyone by their first name,

>>>> but some of that depends

>>>> on

>>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

>> shakes

>>>> my hand and says, "I'm

>>>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

>>>> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

>>>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

>>>> same thing in return?

>>>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

>> (or

>>>> don't have).*

>>>> **

>>>> I think this is a great example, especially

>> because

>>>> so many high schol

>>>> teachers and college professors from the 60's on

>> up

>>>> have attempted to break

>>>> down the academic/superiority "rules" created by

>>>> calling them by their last

>>>> names by asking their students to call them by

>> their

>>>> first names. A perfect

>>>> exaqmple of people breaking social rules on

>> purpose.

>>>>

>>>> A cultural rule that has been legalized is how

>>>> people attain their last

>>>> names. Did you know that for a woman to change

>> her

>>>> last name to her

>>>> husband's name, it costs under $100, but for a

>> man

>>>> to change his last name

>>>> to his wife's last name costs more than $300.

>> These

>>>> are rules left over from

>>>> before women had the right to vote!

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Katherine

>>>> <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>> first

>>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>> an

>>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>> being.

>>>>>

>>>>> But don't you think that's sad (except the

>> income

>>>> question in certain

>>>>> work-related contexts where you are usually told

>>>> not to discuss income)?

>>>>>  I

>>>>> mean, if someone asks how you are, why should

>> you

>>>> hide how you are

>>>>> feeling?

>>>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

>>>> don't, then I shouldn't

>>>>> bother

>>>>> asking!  If someone asks me to buy something and

>>>> I'm broke, what is wrong

>>>>> with saying, "Sorry, but I'm broke?"  We're so

>> up

>>>> tight and often

>>>>> dishonest

>>>>> in this culture.  (I'm back to the "hypocrite"

>>>> thing, as you can tell.)

>>>>>

>>>>> True we don't call everyone by their first name,

>>>> but some of that depends

>>>>> on

>>>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>        

> _______________________________________________________________________ 

> _____________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.   

> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Poverty, Race, Women and Literacy mailing list

> PovertyRaceWomen at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/povertyracewomen

>