Andrea,

I find the book difficult reading, almost self
aggrandizing. I can't be fussed. Maybe another time, I
will pick it up again. It is better reading than say
that awful Bookseller of Kabul. Now that's a book for
lining bird cages and trying the author for sheer
unadulterated racism.

It's good that he got out of prison for following the
rules. 
Cheers
Ujwala




--- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:


> Ujwala--

> 

> Yes, he was extremely lucky.  As I recall, the

> porter who rescued him  

> had knowledge of western ways, so Mortenson was

> somewhat understood, as  

> a person and as an acceptable member of his western

> group--he was not  

> an oddball.  There were  other factors specific to

> Mortenson that  

> enabled him to do what he did--beyond luck, and

> having to do with his  

> background.

> 

>   He was also captured and (briefly) imprisoned when

> he did NOT follow  

> the rules.  He got out of imprisonment when he DID

> follow the rules.

> 

> Read the book.

> 

> Andrea

> 

> On Apr 29, 2008, at 2:29 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

> 

> > Andrea,

> >

> > That's the book I am struggling to read, to get

> into.

> > I give him full marks for adapting, that must have

> > been extremely hard; given the mountains, the

> culture

> > and the language. I also think he was extremely

> lucky

> > to have found the welcome he received, given those

> > areas.

> >

> > Cheers

> > Ujwala

> >

> >

> > --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> wrote:

> >

> >> Ujwala--

> >>

> >> Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded

> >> because he was able to

> >> learn the rules, I think his story is pretty

> >> dramatic;  shows what can

> >> be accomplished when some one has the diligence

> and

> >> desire to learn how

> >> to behave properly in order to get a job done.

> >>

> >> Andrea

> >>

> >>

> >> On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

> >>

> >>> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We

> >> call

> >>> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal

> to

> >> call

> >>> people by their first names."

> >>> Ujwala

> >>> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

> >> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Ujwala-

> >>>>

> >>>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules,

> they

> >> are

> >>>>> just not in plain site.

> >>>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

> >> towards

> >>>>> understanding.<<

> >>>>

> >>>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

> >> first

> >>>> statement. Rules are learned, through

> >> observation,

> >>>> education and interaction. How many of our

> >> learners

> >>>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

> >> upon

> >>>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or

> >> income."

> >>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> >>>> first

> >>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

> >> an

> >>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> >> being. I

> >>>> could go on..... I think there are things to be

> >>>> learned through interaction, and some through

> >>>> teaching."

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> What I meant is much closer to what you

> >> described.

> >>>>

> >>>> What I mean is that people know the hidden

> rules,

> >>>> and yet do not know that

> >>>> they know them, Things as simple as which hand

> to

> >>>> shake hands with, or many

> >>>> other things that are cultural that may seem

> >>>> "natural," but in fact are

> >>>> socially constructed.

> >>>>

> >>>> So just as you said, rules are learned- but

> >> people

> >>>> learn them without really

> >>>> realizing they are being socialized into a

> >>>> particular culture.

> >>>>

> >>>> This is why I think it is so important for our

> >> youth

> >>>> to have the opportunity

> >>>> for world travel- to see how other cultures

> >> express

> >>>> their humaness, to see

> >>>> the simliarties and differences in how people

> >> live

> >>>> their lives may help our

> >>>> youth to open their minds to see how their

> lives

> >> are

> >>>> socially constucted at

> >>>> home.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Like Katherine said:

> >>>>

> >>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

> >>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

> >>>> first

> >>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

> >> an

> >>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> >> being.

> >>>>

> >>>> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why

> should

> >> you

> >>>> hide how you are

> >>>> feeling?

> >>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

> >> don't,

> >>>> then I shouldn't bother

> >>>> asking!*

> >>>>

> >>>> Well yes, if we took the statement at face

> value.

> >>>> But imagine if for

> >>>> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

> >>>> actually told you about

> >>>> their life, allo the trials and tribulations

> etc.

> >> We

> >>>> would never get through

> >>>> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

> >>>> "hello" while appearing to

> >>>> show caring, which I do not think is

> necessarily

> >> a

> >>>> bad thing. Certain people

> >>>> really do want to know- close friends and

> family.

> >>>>

> >>>> *True we don't call everyone by their first

> name,

> >>>> but some of that depends

> >>>> on

> >>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

> >> shakes

> >>>> my hand and says, "I'm

> >>>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or

> "Mr.

> >>>> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

> >>>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do

> the

> >>>> same thing in return?

> >>>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

> >> (or

> >>>> don't have).*

> >>>> **

> >>>> I think this is a great example, especially

> >> because

> >>>> so many high schol

> >>>> teachers and college professors from the 60's

> on

> >> up

> >>>> have attempted to break

> >>>> down the academic/superiority "rules" created

> by

> >>>> calling them by their last

> 

=== message truncated ===



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