--- Katherine <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:


> "don't try to meddle with dearly held customs." 

> Come on Andrea.  Don't mess 

> with customs?  It's a custom in some cultures to be

> racist, sexist, 

> oppressive and hateful.  Should I leave that alone

> when it affects the 

> community I live in?  (Note, I am talking about

> changing the culture in the 

> United States from a destructive one to a productive

> one, not taking on 

> international customs.)<<


I can't agree with you more. I would shock people in
the US when I would say that I had more personal
freedoms in India than I did in the USA. And after
September 11, despite working in academia, the general
tone was "If you don't agree with us, go home." Rather
a sad reflection of things. Some of the conversations
I had with students for research, they would ask that
I keep off the record. I am hoping for a better future
and a return to some form of liberty of speech and
action in the US with the changing of the guard. More
home policies and fewer war-based ones.


> It is considered RADICAL to do this even if you

> follow the proper channels. 

> Consider the freedom of speech to which we are

> entitled.  Consider the ways 

> oppressive powers here in this country try to stifle

> freedom of speech when 

> it steps on political toes.  Is it not "radical" to

> fight this, especially 

> in this apathetic day and age?<<


I think it is a sad state of affairs when helping
other countries achieve "freedoms of speech and
action" is centre stage, and stifling the same in
one's home ground. True liberty is a difficult thing
to achieve and a fragile thing to maintain.


> In this culture, choosing to defy the rest and wear

> "nappy hair" can be 

> considered rebellious. Refusing to sit in the back

> of the bus was considered 

> a radical statement at the time.  What I am saying

> is that there are rules 

> and there are rules.  Sometimes, it takes very

> little rule and norm breaking 

> to make a statement and change the culture for the

> better.

> 

> Don't misunderstand me here.  Violence used as a

> mechanism for change is 

> never acceptable except as self defense against

> certain physical attack. 

> But recall our most famous "radicals" were people

> who just decided, "enough 

> is enough" and did something positive about it.

> 

> "At some point, silence is betrayal."  MLK broke the

> rules for the better. 

> I suggest more of us do as well.<<


It would have been nice to have seen this discussion
post 9/11. Unfortunately, those days silence was the
norm. 

Regards
Ujwala



> 

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> www.luxuriouschoices.net

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: "Andrea Wilder" <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion

> List" 

> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:56 AM

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2126] Re: Mastery

> 

> 

> > Katherine,

> >

> > Well, yes, that is one possible interpretation of

> what I am saying. I

> > am not   You must learn the native tongue.  I am

> not suggesting that

> > you support female genital mutilation,  however,

> only show a deecnt

> > respect for the local ways people follow to

> survive.

> >

> > An example:  richard CAsh, An American-trained

> public health doctor,

> > was not able to make inroads in the use of ORT

> (Oral Rehydration

> > Therapy) with communities in Bangladesh until

> ethnographers had studied

> > the problem, and he himself had worked with local

> people, had lived

> > with local people, eaten their food, essentially

> adapted to their ways.

> >  He and his colleagues are now considered experts

> in this field.  ORT

> > is a method of stopping life-threatening diarrhea

> through

> > administration of a mixture of salt and sugars

> dissolved in water.

> >

> > In my work on leadership succession, which I am

> drawing on here, and

> > which seems very applicable (the replacement of an

> authority figure)  I

> > found that the most successful people (authority

> figures) had 1)  the

> > skills the group needed, 2) had mastered the

> group's rules, and 3)  had

> > then been able to educate / change the group.  The

> most interesting

> > study I looked at was of kindergarten children,

> and  this study and all

> > other successful group studies I looked at,

> followed this pattern.

> >

> > People who work outside the rules are often

> "invisible" to members of

> > the group, as they don't old generally accepted

> positions in the group.

> >  So I guess I am saying, "Listen,  and adapt!"   I

> do mean that

> > literally--observe and learn, ask questions, show

> respect, don't try to

> > meddle with dearly held customs.  Example:  check

> local customs before

> > going into the bazaar in an American dress and

> uncovered arms and legs!

> >

> > However,  adaptation can be unhappy.  In the

> American situation, look

> > at nappy hair, or rather its lack by

> African-American women and men who

> > have their hair "pressed" to flatten it,, to look

> more acceptable and

> > white.   This a sad adaptation, but seemingly

> necessary in an era when

> > nappy hair was looked down on and is an example in

> my view of

> > identification with the oppressor..

> >

> > Andrea

> >

> > .On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:30 PM, Katherine wrote:

> >

> >> Andrea, are you suggesting we can't do good in

> the world unless we

> >> follow

> >> the rules?

> >>

> >> "Well behaved women rarely make history."

> >>

> >> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> >> www.luxuriouschoices.net

> >> ----- Original Message -----

> >> From: "Andrea Wilder" <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> >> To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy

> Discussion List"

> >> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> >> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 8:47 PM

> >> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2119] Re: Mastery

> >>

> >>

> >>> Ujwala--

> >>>

> >>> Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded

> because he was able to

> >>> learn the rules, I think his story is pretty

> dramatic;  shows what can

> >>> be accomplished when some one has the diligence

> and desire to learn

> >>> how

> >>> to behave properly in order to get a job done.

> >>>

> >>> Andrea

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant

> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We

> call

> >>>> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal

> to call

> >>>> people by their first names."

> >>>> Ujwala

> >>>> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>> Ujwala-

> >>>>>

> >>>>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules,

> they are

> >>>>>> just not in plain site.

> >>>>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

> towards

> >>>>>> understanding.<<

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

> first

> >>>>> statement. Rules are learned, through

> observation,

> >>>>> education and interaction. How many of our

> learners

> >>>>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

> upon

> >>>>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or

> income."

> >>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by

> their

> >>>>> first

> >>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is

> not an

> >>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

> being. I

> >>>>> could go on..... I think there are things to

> be

> >>>>> learned through interaction, and some through

> 

=== message truncated ===



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