Kathereine:

1)	this was a need the village elders saw
2)	the national government wasn't building schools.
3)	Mortenson showed up with the necessary skills--cultural adaptation,  
easy adoption of languages, ability to raise money, early life  
experiences which had prepared 	the way for this type of action.


Andrea

On Apr 29, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Katherine wrote:


> So you ladies don't think there is ANYTHING revolutionary about going  

> back

> and opening a school?  That's pretty radical in my mind.  It's out of  

> the

> ordinary.  It's EXTRAORDINARY in fact.

>

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> www.luxuriouschoices.net

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Andrea Wilder" <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> To: "The Poverty, Race,Women and Literacy Discussion List"

> <povertyracewomen at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:51 AM

> Subject: [PovertyRaceWomen 2124] Re: Mastery

>

>

>> Ujwala--

>>

>> Yes, he was extremely lucky.  As I recall, the porter who rescued him

>> had knowledge of western ways, so Mortenson was somewhat understood,  

>> as

>> a person and as an acceptable member of his western group--he was not

>> an oddball.  There were  other factors specific to Mortenson that

>> enabled him to do what he did--beyond luck, and having to do with his

>> background.

>>

>>  He was also captured and (briefly) imprisoned when he did NOT follow

>> the rules.  He got out of imprisonment when he DID follow the rules.

>>

>> Read the book.

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>> On Apr 29, 2008, at 2:29 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>>

>>> Andrea,

>>>

>>> That's the book I am struggling to read, to get into.

>>> I give him full marks for adapting, that must have

>>> been extremely hard; given the mountains, the culture

>>> and the language. I also think he was extremely lucky

>>> to have found the welcome he received, given those

>>> areas.

>>>

>>> Cheers

>>> Ujwala

>>>

>>>

>>> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Ujwala--

>>>>

>>>> Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded

>>>> because he was able to

>>>> learn the rules, I think his story is pretty

>>>> dramatic;  shows what can

>>>> be accomplished when some one has the diligence and

>>>> desire to learn how

>>>> to behave properly in order to get a job done.

>>>>

>>>> Andrea

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We

>>>> call

>>>>> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal to

>>>> call

>>>>> people by their first names."

>>>>> Ujwala

>>>>> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Ujwala-

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules, they

>>>> are

>>>>>>> just not in plain site.

>>>>>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

>>>> towards

>>>>>>> understanding.<<

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

>>>> first

>>>>>> statement. Rules are learned, through

>>>> observation,

>>>>>> education and interaction. How many of our

>>>> learners

>>>>>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

>>>> upon

>>>>>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or

>>>> income."

>>>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>>>> first

>>>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>>>> an

>>>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>>>> being. I

>>>>>> could go on..... I think there are things to be

>>>>>> learned through interaction, and some through

>>>>>> teaching."

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What I meant is much closer to what you

>>>> described.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What I mean is that people know the hidden rules,

>>>>>> and yet do not know that

>>>>>> they know them, Things as simple as which hand to

>>>>>> shake hands with, or many

>>>>>> other things that are cultural that may seem

>>>>>> "natural," but in fact are

>>>>>> socially constructed.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So just as you said, rules are learned- but

>>>> people

>>>>>> learn them without really

>>>>>> realizing they are being socialized into a

>>>>>> particular culture.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> This is why I think it is so important for our

>>>> youth

>>>>>> to have the opportunity

>>>>>> for world travel- to see how other cultures

>>>> express

>>>>>> their humaness, to see

>>>>>> the simliarties and differences in how people

>>>> live

>>>>>> their lives may help our

>>>>>> youth to open their minds to see how their lives

>>>> are

>>>>>> socially constucted at

>>>>>> home.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Like Katherine said:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>>>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>>>> first

>>>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>>>> an

>>>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>>>> being.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why should

>>>> you

>>>>>> hide how you are

>>>>>> feeling?

>>>>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

>>>> don't,

>>>>>> then I shouldn't bother

>>>>>> asking!*

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Well yes, if we took the statement at face value.

>>>>>> But imagine if for

>>>>>> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

>>>>>> actually told you about

>>>>>> their life, allo the trials and tribulations etc.

>>>> We

>>>>>> would never get through

>>>>>> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

>>>>>> "hello" while appearing to

>>>>>> show caring, which I do not think is necessarily

>>>> a

>>>>>> bad thing. Certain people

>>>>>> really do want to know- close friends and family.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> *True we don't call everyone by their first name,

>>>>>> but some of that depends

>>>>>> on

>>>>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

>>>> shakes

>>>>>> my hand and says, "I'm

>>>>>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or "Mr.

>>>>>> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

>>>>>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do the

>>>>>> same thing in return?

>>>>>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

>>>> (or

>>>>>> don't have).*

>>>>>> **

>>>>>> I think this is a great example, especially

>>>> because

>>>>>> so many high schol

>>>>>> teachers and college professors from the 60's on

>>>> up

>>>>>> have attempted to break

>>>>>> down the academic/superiority "rules" created by

>>>>>> calling them by their last

>>>>>> names by asking their students to call them by

>>>> their

>>>>>> first names. A perfect

>>>>>> exaqmple of people breaking social rules on

>>>> purpose.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> A cultural rule that has been legalized is how

>>>>>> people attain their last

>>>>>> names. Did you know that for a woman to change

>>>> her

>>>>>> last name to her

>>>>>> husband's name, it costs under $100, but for a

>>>> man

>>>>>> to change his last name

>>>>>> to his wife's last name costs more than $300.

>>>> These

>>>>>> are rules left over from

>>>>>> before women had the right to vote!

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Katherine

>>>>>> <kgotthardt at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>>>>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>>>> first

>>>>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>>>> an

>>>>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>>>> being.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> But don't you think that's sad (except the

>>>> income

>>>>>> question in certain

>>>>>>> work-related contexts where you are usually told

>>>>>> not to discuss income)?

>>>>>>>  I

>>>>>>> mean, if someone asks how you are, why should

>>>> you

>>>>>> hide how you are

>>>>>>> feeling?

>>>>>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

>>>>>> don't, then I shouldn't

>>>>>>> bother

>>>>>>> asking!  If someone asks me to buy something and

>>>>>> I'm broke, what is wrong

>>>>>>> with saying, "Sorry, but I'm broke?"  We're so

>>>> up

>>>>>> tight and often

>>>>>>> dishonest

>>>>>>> in this culture.  (I'm back to the "hypocrite"

>>>>>> thing, as you can tell.)

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> True we don't call everyone by their first name,

>>>>>> but some of that depends

>>>>>>> on

>>>>>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

>>>>

>>> === message truncated ===

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

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