Ujwala--

I understand your point, and I went to hear him talk with what you say  
in mind--was this guy a phony?  Was the story too good?  I joined the  
line of people who asked him to  sign the book.  I asked him a couple  
of questions--he was completely exhausted, barely able to write, or  
talk, and had the chubbiness  alluded to by his wife--he doesn't take  
good care of himself, and he used to be a hiker and climber.  I think  
he is the real deal.  This is as of April 29, 2008.

Love your comments--

Andrea


On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:


> Andrea,

>

> I find the book difficult reading, almost self

> aggrandizing. I can't be fussed. Maybe another time, I

> will pick it up again. It is better reading than say

> that awful Bookseller of Kabul. Now that's a book for

> lining bird cages and trying the author for sheer

> unadulterated racism.

>

> It's good that he got out of prison for following the

> rules.

> Cheers

> Ujwala

>

>

>

>

> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> wrote:

>

>> Ujwala--

>>

>> Yes, he was extremely lucky.  As I recall, the

>> porter who rescued him

>> had knowledge of western ways, so Mortenson was

>> somewhat understood, as

>> a person and as an acceptable member of his western

>> group--he was not

>> an oddball.  There were  other factors specific to

>> Mortenson that

>> enabled him to do what he did--beyond luck, and

>> having to do with his

>> background.

>>

>>   He was also captured and (briefly) imprisoned when

>> he did NOT follow

>> the rules.  He got out of imprisonment when he DID

>> follow the rules.

>>

>> Read the book.

>>

>> Andrea

>>

>> On Apr 29, 2008, at 2:29 AM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>>

>>> Andrea,

>>>

>>> That's the book I am struggling to read, to get

>> into.

>>> I give him full marks for adapting, that must have

>>> been extremely hard; given the mountains, the

>> culture

>>> and the language. I also think he was extremely

>> lucky

>>> to have found the welcome he received, given those

>>> areas.

>>>

>>> Cheers

>>> Ujwala

>>>

>>>

>>> --- Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>

>> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Ujwala--

>>>>

>>>> Greg Mortenson of "Three Cups of Tea" succeeded

>>>> because he was able to

>>>> learn the rules, I think his story is pretty

>>>> dramatic;  shows what can

>>>> be accomplished when some one has the diligence

>> and

>>>> desire to learn how

>>>> to behave properly in order to get a job done.

>>>>

>>>> Andrea

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Ujwala Samant wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Just noted a typo my post. It should read, "We

>>>> call

>>>>> people by their first names." Or, "It's normal

>> to

>>>> call

>>>>> people by their first names."

>>>>> Ujwala

>>>>> --- Daniel Rizik-Baer <drizikbaer at gmail.com>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Ujwala-

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "> I think everyone knows the hidden rules,

>> they

>>>> are

>>>>>>> just not in plain site.

>>>>>>> Knowing that they are there is a big step

>>>> towards

>>>>>>> understanding.<<

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I think there is a huge leap of faith in the

>>>> first

>>>>>> statement. Rules are learned, through

>>>> observation,

>>>>>> education and interaction. How many of our

>>>> learners

>>>>>> have positive, direct, educational interaction

>>>> upon

>>>>>> arrival? "We don't ask someone their age or

>>>> income."

>>>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>>>> first

>>>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>>>> an

>>>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>>>> being. I

>>>>>> could go on..... I think there are things to be

>>>>>> learned through interaction, and some through

>>>>>> teaching."

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What I meant is much closer to what you

>>>> described.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What I mean is that people know the hidden

>> rules,

>>>>>> and yet do not know that

>>>>>> they know them, Things as simple as which hand

>> to

>>>>>> shake hands with, or many

>>>>>> other things that are cultural that may seem

>>>>>> "natural," but in fact are

>>>>>> socially constructed.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So just as you said, rules are learned- but

>>>> people

>>>>>> learn them without really

>>>>>> realizing they are being socialized into a

>>>>>> particular culture.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> This is why I think it is so important for our

>>>> youth

>>>>>> to have the opportunity

>>>>>> for world travel- to see how other cultures

>>>> express

>>>>>> their humaness, to see

>>>>>> the simliarties and differences in how people

>>>> live

>>>>>> their lives may help our

>>>>>> youth to open their minds to see how their

>> lives

>>>> are

>>>>>> socially constucted at

>>>>>> home.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Like Katherine said:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "We don't ask someone their age or income."

>>>>>> comes to mind. "We don't call everyone by their

>>>>>> first

>>>>>> name." When asked "How're you doing?" it is not

>>>> an

>>>>>> invitation to discuss your state of mind or

>>>> being.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> *I mean, if someone asks how you are, why

>> should

>>>> you

>>>>>> hide how you are

>>>>>> feeling?

>>>>>> If I ask, don't I really want to know?  If I

>>>> don't,

>>>>>> then I shouldn't bother

>>>>>> asking!*

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Well yes, if we took the statement at face

>> value.

>>>>>> But imagine if for

>>>>>> everyone you said "how are you doing?" to, they

>>>>>> actually told you about

>>>>>> their life, allo the trials and tribulations

>> etc.

>>>> We

>>>>>> would never get through

>>>>>> our day!  It has become a greeting that means

>>>>>> "hello" while appearing to

>>>>>> show caring, which I do not think is

>> necessarily

>>>> a

>>>>>> bad thing. Certain people

>>>>>> really do want to know- close friends and

>> family.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> *True we don't call everyone by their first

>> name,

>>>>>> but some of that depends

>>>>>> on

>>>>>> how they introduce themselves.  If a stranger

>>>> shakes

>>>>>> my hand and says, "I'm

>>>>>> Jay Smith," then should I call him "Jay" or

>> "Mr.

>>>>>> Smith"?  And if he calls ME

>>>>>> by MY first name, shouldn't I assume I can do

>> the

>>>>>> same thing in return?

>>>>>> These are questions I'm sure ESOL students have

>>>> (or

>>>>>> don't have).*

>>>>>> **

>>>>>> I think this is a great example, especially

>>>> because

>>>>>> so many high schol

>>>>>> teachers and college professors from the 60's

>> on

>>>> up

>>>>>> have attempted to break

>>>>>> down the academic/superiority "rules" created

>> by

>>>>>> calling them by their last

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>        

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