Robin, I really appreciate your comments. They are so meaningful! Thanks for
your insightful posting.

 

Molly Elkins
Literacy Specialist
Douglas County Libraries
Phillip S. Miller Library
  100 S. Wilcox Street
  Castle Rock CO 80104
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Phone: (303)791-READ 
Email: melkins at dclibraries.org
Web: www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org <http://www.douglascountylibraries.org/>


-----Original Message-----
From: professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
robinschwarz1 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:55 AM
To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1729] Re: PD Experiences that Change

 

Claire-- this is a very interesting posting.  It made me think of several
things, (not directly connected to the PD discussion perse, but leading up
to it!) but what most connected were your comments about your students and
when you had made  your points about what active learning is, decided NOT to
ask your students how long THEY think getting their GED will take.   What I
thought of were David Rosen's comments on how really good PD allows for
particpants/learners to make their own decisions about what they need and
how they will go about obtaining that--or words to that effect.  

I have seen that when GED learners are given information about different
ways to learn, are honestly asked about what their goals are and then are
taught how to do learning in little steps, how to set interim goals that
include time estimates, and how to reflect on what worked and what did not
for them in learning--just as you are doing with your Italian-- their
engagement and progress are astounding.   What many of your learners lack is
just exactly the myriad skills you reveal in  your explanation of your
approach to learning Italian.  Obviously, if those learners had those
skills, they would not be asking you that unanswerable question.

What this also made me think of was a person involved in running a tiny
church-based GED program in a very poor neighborhood of a large Texas city.
I was doing an investigation/evaluation to try to figure out why this--and
several other--GED programs were getting such poor results--almost no one
completing their GED's--this one was particularly puzzling, as the staff was
terrific and warm and the center offered child care for children of all ages
and had many other features that should have had people lining up at the
door.   But after a couple of visits and many interviews, this person told a
story about a lady who walked miles to get her child after school because
she didn't want the child on the bus, and then the lady walked to the center
and completed her studies and got her GED.   The person went on to say that
THIS was the kind of student the center wanted-- other people came and
dropped out because they were "not goal oriented", he told me.  It was one
of those "aha" moments in qualitative research.   The program, then, had a
self-fulfilling mission of failure-- help only the goal-oriented-- and sure
enough only the goal-oriented finished.  But since the HUGE majority of GED
learners are NOT goal oriented because they don't know how that works, the
majority in this, and the other programs I looked at, did not stay--they
were not being taught HOW to be learners, merely given the books and taught
how to do fractions or write a paragraph.   

I heard this attitude again at a community college in New Mexico, where one
of the people involved in a support tutoring program for at-risk older teens
said that some of the students didn't really care about learning and were
not motivated.  Yet those students showed up everyday hoping something would
happen. 

We all know of people who chose to get their GED for whatever reason and
just got the books, studied and did it. I have a friend here in Maine whose
son did just that when he transferred to a high school he did not like.
These are NOT the people who our programs most need to serve.  

This is where REAL PD comes in-- people who work with learners who have
never been taught the power of self-directed learning--how to do it
effectively and authentically-- need to learn through good PD to be able to
communicate to such learners positive views of their being able to learn how
to be learners.   I always tell my training groups that learners, like
children, always live up or down to the expectations of their teachers--just
as the learners at that center in Texas do--they drop out because from the
first, the expectation is that they will.   


I find that the biggest challenge by far that I face as a PD provider is
getting teachers out of the "cook book"mode-- "give me some strategies"--and
into the mindset of learning how to be teachers who can set about figuring
out what each learner needs to be able to become independent learners.
Another of those many things I say to those in training is that adult
education was given a stocking full of coal lumps by K-12.  The whole
approach to learning in adult education, it seems to me, has been adopted
wholesale from the teacher-centered, lesson-plan culture of K-12--and it is
the antithesis of what adult learners need to thrive.   When I try to get
teachers to think about methods such as learning centers or individual
learning plans or folders, both methods where learners make their own
decisions about what they want to learn and how, the first response is
always, "You mean I will have to do 15 different lesson plans??"   I had one
teacher in a PD session rise up in annoyance and tell me she could NEVER do
this kind of teaching because it would mean students might TALK.  (This was
an ESOL training, too.....)  As I say, the need to control the classroom to
feel competent is pretty deeply ingrained.  

But the bigger message here is that I can't stress enough the joy to be had
in helping learners learn how to become independent learners who CAN
reflect, plan set tiny goals in working towards larger, life goals, and
really feel for the first time that they have control of their own destiny.
I have seen it happen--and having seen it work with learners, have
implemented that approach with my own trainees.    

Robin Lovrien Schwarz


I don't know if others 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: tjdclaire <tjdclaire at cox.net>
To: 'The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List'
<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:44 pm
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1723] Re: PD Experiences that Change

One of the best professional development experiences that I have had was the
most recent and combined everything that has been pointed out as a plus.

The workshop or series of workshops was for Teachers Investigating Adult
Numeracy (TIAN).  Not only did the program I work for pay for hours I missed
from the classroom but there was a small stipend as well.  (I should note
that there were hours included in which I would not have been in the
classroom, and I was not paid for that time.)

There was food included (continental breakfast). (This was a minor
incentive.) 
There were free resources to go back and use with our classes (always a BIG
plus). 
There was a report in which we had to reflect on our experiences and provide
samples of student work (after obtaining student permission.)  I have to
admit that I did not enjoy doing this.but I did enjoy hearing what others
had written.

There was sharing with other teachers from around the state.another plus. 
The best thing that I have brought forward is the habit of asking myself,
"What does the student know how to do?", "What does the student not know how
to do?", and "What question can I ask that will lead to the student thinking
about his/her error without immediately letting on that it was an error or
just giving the answer or my own explanation?"

Of course, this is math and these questions won't always work the same way
with other topics. 

To shift perspectives a little, I would like to say that I agree that
lifelong learning is what we should be about.  I decided about five years
ago that I wanted to learn Italian (actually I have wanted to learn it for
much longer, but five years ago I started taking steps to do it.)  I have
been taking classes at the community college almost ever since.  These are
the typical twice a week offering, for an hour and a half each class.  One
of my ABE/GED classes happens to be held on the same campus, also twice
weekly, but for three hours at a time.  

Here is the point. My students frequently ask, "How long will it take me to
get my GED?"  When they ask,  I tell them that it depends on what they know
now and how hard they are prepared to work.  I explain about my Italian
class and about how long I have been studying.  I also tell them that if I
only went to class and did the prescribed homework I would still be a
beginner.  What I do is listen to Italian music in my car and at home.  I've
gone to Italy twice for two weeks at a time (although most people you meet
there speak English better than I speak Italian. The trips weren't
necessarily instructive in themselves but were certainly motivation to learn
as much as possible.)  In addition, while I was there I purchased books in
Italian (paperbacks in subjects that I like to read in English).  I read
every night before I go to sleep.  I have taken an additional class in
Italian film each semester that it has been offered.  I'm still not
proficient in speaking, and I still cannot understand someone speaking at a
"normal" pace, but I can see progress.  I tell them that if you really want
to learn something, you have to work at it more than twice a week.I then
give some tips to keep this work at a minimum but still expose them to what
they want to learn several times daily.

I would like to ask my students, "So how long do you think it will take to
get your GED?", but I don't.  Unfortunately,  I think the motivation of many
of my students is approximately equal to that of teachers who like to use
the same old handouts every time and see PD as just something more to do.  I
think the feeling of my students about doing work at home is approximately
equal to my enjoyment of  preparing a report for the TIAN workshop.  I don't
believe food is much of an incentive to most (indeed, I have an activity
with M&M's that I allow them to eat when the activity is done.each person
gets his/her own new, unopened bag.and people often don't eat them.)  Pay?
They're lucky we aren't asking them for money (although that day is looming
on the horizon.)  I'm afraid my lecture about only coming to class twice a
week may drive some students away.

I love learning, but that is something that I have generally been successful
at, unlike many of my students.  To many people, I'm a little weird that
way.  I love sharing.  I don't relish doing reports and working beyond my
normal hours (Aha! I'm not weird.).  So I can understand why
students/teachers, in spite of all the motivating influences: get a job, a
better job, go on for further education/training, get paid, get fed, etc.,
don't always want to do the up front work to learn.

What can be done?  Appeal to their vanity, perhaps.  Let them know/think
that their contributions are invaluable and proceed to treat them that way.

Pay them more for this consulting work than they make teaching if you really
want to see a change in attitude.  Provide lots of time for networking; one
of the biggest complaints we get regarding inservices is that there was not
enough time to share.  Offering choices is important.

In the days when people went to national conferences (I hope those days
aren't completely gone), I had lots of chances to share.  I felt a little
important because going to the conference (paid back by the program or on a
scholarship) was a privilege.  Going wasn't just for the conference sessions
but for the preconference sessions as well, where I got to pick out
something I really wanted to know more about.  I went to Mount St. Helens as
a part of a COABE preconference and brought back knowledge, pictures, and
some materials that I purchased there that I have used a number of times
with my students.  It was something I could get excited about.  It had some
of the same elements that summer camp had.away from home, with people that
you had something in common with, on a bus trip...That same excitement is
pretty hard to duplicate in a learning circle.

Enough for now. 
Claire Ludovico 

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