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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:navy'>Robin, I
really appreciate your comments. They are so meaningful! Thanks for your
insightful posting.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#665614" face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#665614'>Molly
Elkins<br>
Literacy Specialist<br>
Douglas County Libraries<br>
Phillip S. Miller Library<br>
100 S. Wilcox Street<br>
Castle Rock CO 80104<br>
</span></font><font color=navy face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:navy'><a
href="http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&formtype=address&searchtype=address&cat=&address=100%20S%20Wilcox%20St&city=Castle%20Rock&state=CO&zipcode=80104%2d1911&search=Get%2bMap">Map</a><br>
</span></font><font color="#665614" face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#665614'>Phone: (303)791-READ <br>
Email: </span></font><font color=navy face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:navy'><a
href="mailto:melkins@dclibraries.org">melkins@dclibraries.org</a><br>
</span></font><font color="#665614" face="Palatino Linotype"><span
style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype";color:#665614'>Web: </span></font><font
color=navy face="Palatino Linotype"><span style='font-family:"Palatino Linotype";
color:navy'><a href="http://www.douglascountylibraries.org/">www.DouglasCountyLibraries.org</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
professionaldevelopment-bounces@nifl.gov
[mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces@nifl.gov] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>robinschwarz1@aol.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 14, 2007
7:55 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> professionaldevelopment@nifl.gov<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [ProfessionalDevelopment
1729] Re: PD Experiences that Change</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Claire-- this is a very interesting
posting. It made me think of several things, (not directly connected to
the PD discussion perse, but leading up to it!) but what most connected were
your comments about your students and when you had made your points about
what active learning is, decided NOT to ask your students how long THEY think
getting their GED will take. What I thought of were David Rosen's
comments on how really good PD allows for particpants/learners to make their
own decisions about what they need and how they will go about obtaining
that--or words to that effect. <br>
<br>
I have seen that when GED learners are given information about different ways
to learn, are honestly asked about what their goals are and then are taught how
to do learning in little steps, how to set interim goals that include time
estimates, and how to reflect on what worked and what did not for them in
learning--just as you are doing with your Italian-- their engagement and
progress are astounding. What many of your learners lack is just
exactly the myriad skills you reveal in your explanation of your approach
to learning Italian. Obviously, if those learners had those skills, they
would not be asking you that unanswerable question.<br>
<br>
What this also made me think of was a person involved in running a tiny
church-based GED program in a very poor neighborhood of a large Texas
city. I was doing an investigation/evaluation to try to figure out
why this--and several other--GED programs were getting such poor results--almost
no one completing their GED's--this one was particularly puzzling, as the staff
was terrific and warm and the center offered child care for children of all
ages and had many other features that should have had people lining up at the
door. But after a couple of visits and many interviews, this person
told a story about a lady who walked miles to get her child after school
because she didn't want the child on the bus, and then the lady walked to the
center and completed her studies and got her GED. The person went
on to say that THIS was the kind of student the center wanted-- other people
came and dropped out because they were "not goal oriented", he told
me. It was one of those "aha" moments in qualitative
research. The program, then, had a self-fulfilling mission of
failure-- help only the goal-oriented-- and sure enough only the goal-oriented
finished. But since the HUGE majority of GED learners are NOT goal
oriented because they don't know how that works, the majority in this, and the
other programs I looked at, did not stay--they were not being taught HOW to be
learners, merely given the books and taught how to do fractions or write a
paragraph. <br>
<br>
I heard this attitude again at a community college in New Mexico, where one of
the people involved in a support tutoring program for at-risk older teens said
that some of the students didn't really care about learning and were not
motivated. Yet those students showed up everyday hoping something would
happen. <br>
<br>
We all know of people who chose to get their GED for whatever reason and just
got the books, studied and did it. I have a friend here in Maine whose son did
just that when he transferred to a high school he did not like. These
are NOT the people who our programs most need to serve. <br>
<br>
This is where REAL PD comes in-- people who work with learners who have never
been taught the power of self-directed learning--how to do it effectively and
authentically-- need to learn through good PD to be able to communicate to such
learners positive views of their being able to learn how to be
learners. I always tell my training groups that learners, like
children, always live up or down to the expectations of their teachers--just as
the learners at that center in Texas do--they drop out because from the first,
the expectation is that they will. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
I find that the biggest challenge by far that I face as a PD provider is
getting teachers out of the "cook book"mode-- "give me some
strategies"--and into the mindset of learning how to be teachers who can
set about figuring out what each learner needs to be able to become independent
learners. Another of those many things I say to those in training is that
adult education was given a stocking full of coal lumps by K-12. The
whole approach to learning in adult education, it seems to me, has been adopted
wholesale from the teacher-centered, lesson-plan culture of K-12--and it is the
antithesis of what adult learners need to thrive. When I try to get
teachers to think about methods such as learning centers or individual learning
plans or folders, both methods where learners make their own decisions about
what they want to learn and how, the first response is always, "You mean I
will have to do 15 different lesson plans??" I had one teacher
in a PD session rise up in annoyance and tell me she could NEVER do this kind
of teaching because it would mean students might TALK. (This was an ESOL
training, too.....) As I say, the need to control the classroom to feel
competent is pretty deeply ingrained. <br>
<br>
But the bigger message here is that I can't stress enough the joy to be had in
helping learners learn how to become independent learners who CAN reflect, plan
set tiny goals in working towards larger, life goals, and really feel for the
first time that they have control of their own destiny. I have seen it
happen--and having seen it work with learners, have implemented that approach
with my own trainees. <br>
<br>
Robin Lovrien Schwarz<br>
<br>
<br>
I don't know if others </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: tjdclaire <tjdclaire@cox.net><br>
To: 'The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List'
<professionaldevelopment@nifl.gov><br>
Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:44 pm<br>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 1723] Re: PD Experiences that Change</span></font></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_749324ac-5733-4e22-8aad-b04677989e43">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>One of the best professional
development experiences that I have had was the most recent and combined
everything that has been pointed out as a plus.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The workshop or series of workshops
was for Teachers Investigating Adult Numeracy (TIAN). Not only did the
program I work for pay for hours I missed from the classroom but there was a
small stipend as well. (I should note that there were hours included in
which I would not have been in the classroom, and I was not paid for that
time.)</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>There was food included (continental
breakfast). (This was a minor incentive.) </span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>There
were free resources to go back and use with our classes (always a BIG plus). </span></font><br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>There
was a report in which we had to reflect on our experiences and provide samples
of student work (after obtaining student permission.) </span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have to
admit that I did not enjoy doing this…but I did enjoy hearing what others had
written.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>There was sharing with other
teachers from around the state…another plus.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The
best thing that I have brought forward is the habit of asking myself,
"What does the student know how to do?", "What does the student
not know how to do?", and "What question can I ask that will lead to
the student thinking about his/her error without</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>immediately letting
on that it was an error or</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>just giving the answer or my own
explanation?"</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Of course, this is math and these
questions won't</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>always</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>work the same way with other topics.</span></font>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>To shift perspectives a little, I
would like to say that I agree that lifelong learning is what we should be
about. I decided about five years ago that I wanted to learn Italian
(actually I have wanted to learn it for much longer, but five years ago I
started taking steps to do it.) I have been taking classes at the
community college almost ever since. These are the typical twice a week
offering,</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>for</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>an hour and a half each class.
One of my ABE/GED classes happens to be held on the same campus, also twice
weekly, but for three hours at a time. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Here is the point.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My students
frequently ask, "How long will it take me to get my GED?" When
they ask,</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> I tell</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>them that it depends on what they
know now and how hard they are prepared to work. I explain</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>about my
Italian class and about how long I have been studying. I also tell them
that if I only went to class and did the prescribed homework I would still be a
beginner. What I do is listen to Italian music in my car and at
home. I've gone to Italy twice for two weeks at a time (although most
people you meet there speak English better than I speak Italian. The trips
weren't necessarily instructive in themselves but were certainly motivation to
learn as much as possible.) In addition, while I was there I purchased
books in Italian (paperbacks in subjects that I like to read in English).
I read every night before I go to sleep. I have taken an additional class
in Italian film each semester that it has been offered. I'm still not
proficient in speaking, and I still cannot understand someone speaking at a
"normal" pace, but I can see progress. </span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I tell them
that if you really want to learn something, you have to work at it more than
twice a week…I then give some tips to keep this work at a minimum but still
expose them to what they want to learn several times daily.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>would like to</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ask my
students, "So how long do</span></font><i><span style='font-style:italic'>
</span></i><i><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;font-style:italic'>you</span></font></i> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>think it will take to get your
GED?", but I don't. Unfortunately, I think the motivation of
many of my students is approximately equal to that of teachers who like to use
the same old handouts every time and see PD as just something more to do.
I think the feeling of my students about doing work at home is approximately
equal to my enjoyment of preparing a report for the TIAN workshop.
I don't believe food is much of an incentive to most (indeed, I have an
activity with M&M's that I allow them to eat when the activity is done…each
person gets his/her own new, unopened bag…and people often don't eat
them.) Pay? They're lucky we aren't asking them for money (although
that day is looming on the horizon.) I'm afraid my lecture about only
coming to class twice a week may drive some students away.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I love learning, but that is
something that I have generally been successful at, unlike many of my
students. To many people, I'm a little weird that way. I love
sharing. I don't relish doing reports and working beyond my normal hours
(Aha! I'm not weird.). So I can understand why students/teachers, in
spite of all the motivating influences: get a job, a better job, go on for
further education/training, get paid, get fed, etc., don't always want to do
the up front work to learn.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What can be done? Appeal to
their vanity, perhaps. Let them know/think that their contributions are
invaluable and proceed to treat them that way.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Pay them more for this consulting
work than they make teaching if you really want to see a change in
attitude. Provide lots of time for networking; one of the biggest
complaints we get regarding inservices is that there was not enough time to
share. Offering choices is important.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In the days when people went to
national conferences (I hope those days aren't completely gone), I had lots of
chances to share. I felt a little important because going to the
conference (paid back by the program or on a scholarship) was a
privilege. Going wasn't just for the conference sessions but for the
preconference sessions as well, where I got to pick out something I really
wanted to know more about. I went to Mount St. Helens as a part of a
COABE preconference and brought back knowledge, pictures, and some materials
that I purchased there that I have used a number of times with my
students. It was something I could get excited about. It had some
of the same elements that summer camp had…away from home, with people that you
had something in common with, on a bus trip...That same excitement is pretty
hard to duplicate in a learning circle.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Enough for now.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Claire
Ludovico</span></font> </p>
</div>
</div>
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</span></font></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in;background:white'><tt><font
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